community-based, non-corporate, participatory media
M2 March Pics
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
The Westminster College Green Party's coverage of the M2 march through Oakland that included confrontations with fans at the Pitt. game and police. Included in the pics are sightings of a police officer punching someone and a pair of FBI agents who showed up, got pissed that they were being photographed and quickly left. At the end of the march a total of 23 police cars, 2 paddy wagons, and a PAT bus were counted before police were told to disperse and circle the block. Channel 11 news reported that about 500 people took part in the unpermitted march.
march_5.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
Police Officer Hits a protester
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
nice_right_hook_officer.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
FBI Agents
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
When we began to photograph these agents the older man began to heatedly approach and said "No Pictures" in turn I replied "Fuck you, It's Press" and walked away urging others to photograph them. After that they weren't seen for the rest of the day.
march
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
civic_1.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
march
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
civic_2.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
lots of cops
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
cops_11.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
march
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
cops_2.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
he walks with a big stick
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
cops_5.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
police officers march with protesters
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
cops_6.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
march
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
cops_8.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
end of march across from SEI
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
sanctuary_showdown_1.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
end of march across from SEI
by Sean Kennedy/Isaac Ludwig
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 12:20 AM
ludwigih@westminster.edu
sanctuary_showdown_2.jpg, image/jpeg, 640x480
THOMAS mERTON CENTER
by MARY RUTH AULL
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 1:34 PM
GURU7540@CS.COM 412-7957078
I participated inthe rally and march. i was disappointed in the police who were very agitated and aggressive. I don;t understand their demeanor since they were so composed and supportive to the gathering which was so much larger than this one. they definitely aggravated the crowd and told on woman to shut up!!! they appeared angry and nasty. I didn;t appreciate the attitude one bit. if they would have just left the crowd alone it would have baeen over and done with in a few minutes too bad. think they get their attitudes from the present administrations attack on citizens civil rights. this is just the beginning. thanks for being there Peace be with you, mary ruth
I was there too.
by gwen
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 3:15 PM
The answer as to why they were agitated this time is easy: there were no permits this time.
Actually, I found that overall, the police were very good about it all. Most places that show a march of that size without permits and tying up traffic, businesses, etc... would have seen a lot more brutality, a lot more arrests. In this case, there were only two cops (the ones shown in the pics above) who were a bit overzealous. For the most part, I found cops being mostly just trying to keep the very disorganized marching into a reasonable route. I even was able to joke with them on the sidelines.
Now, granted, after the march lulled in front of the Cathedral, I decided enough was enough, and I went somewhere warm. That's when the cops were swarming around the protestors, and my friends and I watched saying, :"Ok, this is where arrests will be made." I was very surprised to hear there were none from the news reports later.
But overall, I really liked how the cops handled this one. We were doing something illegal, and it is their job to do something about that. What most of them chose was to try to keep everyone moving along to get it done and over with, and this is heaps better than I expected after watching reports out of NYC from February, and out of DC from August, and what I've seen at previous marches in Pittsburgh and DC.
www.gw3n.com/digicam/protestMar2/
actually Gwen
by pog'er
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 3:46 PM
I think what the poster above was refering to was correct.
In January there was NO PERMIT for the breakaway march that followed the permitted march. In that instance the police provided an escort to the march, we informed them for the most part where we planned to go, they went ahead and cleared traffic, but otherwise they didn't really actively confront the march. At the march this time POG had a liason with the police and we were informed that the police would not be providing a escort or facilitiating the march thus assuring that traffic would be significantly disrupted. So in fact there was a major change in police response to the same type of march. Just wanted to clear that up.
just a comment
by jeff
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 4:22 PM
It looks to me that the policemanin the pic is pointing and not hitting anyone.
observer
by --
Monday, Mar. 03, 2003 at 4:36 PM
I don't know about the picture taken but I was standing about 3 ft away and that officer did initiate physical contact. He did shove people, was abusive, and did grab people. I don't know if he was hiting the person in that particular photo though.
Misleading photo
by The woman in black
Tuesday, Mar. 04, 2003 at 12:41 AM
That's me in the "nice right hook" photo, and no, I am not being punched by the cop. While they did shove us around a little, they were actually pretty docile. (Maybe due to the captive audience of motorists?) A friend of mine who is not pictured did get hit during this confrontation but I don't think he was hurt.
What kind of camera do you foiks use...?
by Daniel Papasian
Tuesday, Mar. 04, 2003 at 10:46 AM
I realize this is off topic, but it'd be nice if you guys shared what brand/model camera you used when you posted pictures. I know that I'm at all of these events and I often would like a camera... digital cameras are nice yet expensive for a student like myself. What do most folks posting to indy use? What's a good but inexpensive camera that's good for protests and rallies?
Photo Equipment
by Brad Cue
Tuesday, Mar. 04, 2003 at 12:44 PM
Daniel, I've subnmitted the following photographic based stories:
http://indypgh.org/news/2003/03/1553.php
http://indypgh.org/news/2003/02/1328.php
http://indypgh.org/news/2003/01/642.php
http://indypgh.org/news/2002/09/103.php
All photos have been shot digitally. No film for me. Digital allows me to easily edit, post and archive my photos. My primary camera is an Olympus E-10 digital SLR outfitted with a Vivitar 285HV flash unit. This camera has performed quite well for me over the 5000+ exposures it has handled. I purchased mine for $1500 a while back, not sure what they go for now, but its definitely for people serious about photography. My secondary camera I use for wideangle shots is an older Olympus C-2020 with a Nikon .7x converter on it. A very reliable camera... You can't go wrong with the C-X0X0 series of cameras if you're looking for affordable, quality cameras with plenty of control.
If you have more questions email me at devolution@dirtragmag.com
Thanks!
-brad
be peaceful, act what you speak
by arlean
Tuesday, Mar. 04, 2003 at 6:54 PM
I was very proud to march with you all right up until it ended. I was lucky to be your age at a time when there was just words in a very cold world.
But at the end I saw and heard things we can not stand for at this time. Anger and hate towards the police officers. No matter what you think of them, these guys don't have an easy job. Next time, maybe we can all show them just a bit more respect and in turn, they might show a bit more respect back. I am sure some of them have seem war in younger days and some of them have feelings they can not express because of their jobs, their families, their coworkers. It ain't easy being them.
We can never blame anyone else, unless we take a good look at our ownselves.
Please during the next march, be curtious, be kind to them. It is after all a different day. Don't tease them. Don't put them down.
During another era, during Martin Luther King, the people went in peace, in calm. It was a different time, but these times the police have learned to be more tolerant of things. It was different then. You marched, you said nothing, you got beat up. You don't want that. You don't want to feel that on you.
Come in peace, march in peace, be what you say you are. Come together.
I agree
by --
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2003 at 12:51 AM
The disrespect for the cops was probably uncalled for. But on the other hand, it was all in good fun, and I'm sure that the police's feelings were not hurt. I bet some of them were even chuckling.
response
by sean kennedy
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2003 at 12:53 AM
kennedsp@westminster.edu
as the person who took the photo of the alleged punch by the officer, id like to say that i do agree that the police were very well behaved, and quite professional, without exception. when i took this shot i was trying to get a pic of the protestors and the police across from one another, because, as anyone knows who was there, this was one of the most 'intense' moments of the unpermitted march. i felt this was the first time that there was a possibility of arrests. i do acknowledge that this photo isnt what it seems, as you can more clearly tell in the larger size. i do hope that this does not serve as a reflection of the job that the police officers did on sunday, as i felt they were exceptionally cooperative while putting up with quite a lot of harassment. this march was unpermitted, and they could and some say should have disallowed it to happen right from the get-go, but they chose to let us make a point, and allow and trust us to do so peacefully, which was more than we could have asked.
also, for whoever was asking, i use a 'sony cuber-shot 3.2 mega pixel' digital camera....see ya on the 16th!!!!
umm, ya
by ---
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2003 at 3:01 AM
I'm not sure everyone here understands the situation.
Let's be perfectly honest. People are going to march with or without a permit. Thousnds of people are about to die and the city has a unconstitutional 45 day requirment for applying for permits. The police aren't avoiding cracking down on events out of sheer goodness or because they are nice. How naive are you people? They are avoiding it because things are very volatile right now and the worst thing that can happen is for one side or the other to foolishly escalate things to where the other side is forced to respond. If the police had tried to break things up on the 2nd it's very likely people would have strongly resisted and it's possible they would have suceeded in taking the streets anyway and forcing the police to back down until overwhelming numbers of cops arrived. Not only that but it's likely people would have retailiated to the ensuing brutality by breaking things or doing other such unproductive actions. The people I saw in Oakland could have smashed any store in the area and there isn't anything the cops would have been able to do about it. No one wants that right now but you through mass arrests or police brutality into the mix and things will change. What exists right now is an uneasy peace between the police and protesters. People don't break things or become violent and they let us march without too much hassle. Woo be to the side that breaks this pact because it seems to me the repercussions are going to be overwhelming.
It's within the police discretion to let people march. yes, they aren't beating everyone up recently but it's pretty ridiculous to sit here patting them on the back for doing what they should. It's like wow, good protester you didn't break anything today even though you could have. Gosh. How do people get so conditioned? This is the same police department that beats people up every freakin day. You think the 2001 Mayday protest were a abberation?
po pos
by Evan N
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2003 at 7:09 AM
You know what? the police probably aren't cracking us in the head with their clubs becuase i bet they are against the war. I'm sure lots of police (not to mention fire, and medical) money comes from the homeland security bill thingy that promised local governments big wads of cash to be prepared for a terrorist attack, and bush never delivered. Money will probably also be taken out of their budget as well as education to pay with this war, since obviously tax dollars wont. With the exception of the two overzealous officers, i wouldn't be suprised if some of them were for the war. they could have gotten away with a lot more shit and not seen reprocussions but chose not to - and it leaves you wondering why.
kops
by RAGer
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2003 at 12:26 PM
Look folks, the kops are not our friends. If you are in this movement just to end one war and then go to fucking Starbucks then maybe you can see it that way. They chose to take the jobs they have and they defend the status quo. I for one want to end all wars and all violence and to do this means and end to capitalism. Kops defend the rulers and if they try to stop us from marching and if they try to arrest us we have the human right to self defense. The kop that hit me and tried to grab me is not my fucking pal. I am not going to pat him on the bag or compliment his mustache or cheer for himKops are the immediate manifestation of militarism in our culture and they must be seen as such. If some kops are against the war and against police brutality they should tell their buddies to stop shooting 12 year old kids.
You've got to be Kidding
by JonUs
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2003 at 5:06 PM
"The police aren't avoiding cracking down on events out of sheer goodness or because they are nice. "
Come on. I grew up around Cops and guess what? They are normal people some are nice and some aren't.
" I for one want to end all wars and all violence and to do this means and end to capitalism."
That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, until EVERYONE IN THE WORLD gets rid of greed and Hate war will be around. And guess what Greed is a normal human emotion. What conclusiond does that lead you to?
" Kops defend the rulers and if they try to stop us from marching and if they try to arrest us we have the human right to self defense. "
They are allowed to arrest you it is part of their job. It was an UNPERMITTED march. Which means by taking part in it you were BREAKING the law. Which means they have every right to arrest you.
"If some kops are against the war and against police brutality they should tell their buddies to stop shooting 12 year old kids."
Everyone makes mistakes. Your comment is the same as me saying "If Doctors are against people dying they should stop putting the wrong blood type of organs in patients."
JonUs
Fuck the Police!
by Junkyard
Wednesday, Mar. 05, 2003 at 8:20 PM
What is up with all this praise and sympathy for the police? Yes, I definitely agree that the police in Pittsburgh (both this past weekend and at the last breakway march in January) were pretty laid back, especially in comparison to other cities (ie. NYC, DC). But, I agree with the "RAGer" (what's up, bro?) - the cops are most definitely not our friends. Their job is to protect the ruling class, and to continue to enforce the FALSE class and racial divisions that exist in our capitalist society. Fuck them! They are the first line of defense between us and the rich, and will actively stand in our way of making any kind of real change.
Now, I'm not so ignorant as to believe that all cops are evil. Yeah, they might be some good individual cops out there. But the system dictates what their job is, and all of them must abide by that, which makes them a very real part of the oppressive system we live in. And please don't go off telling me they need to feed their families, and they are just doing their job. If they really felt differently, and didn't want to bully people around and fuck people up, they wouldn't be cops. They can go find another job that pays just as much that doesn't oppress people.
So, FUCK THE POLICE! CLASS WAR NOW!
come on.....
by JonUs
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2003 at 12:30 AM
"If they really felt differently, and didn't want to bully people around and fuck people up, they wouldn't be cops. "
OK why do people want to be cops? Apparently your answer is what is above. My answer is because they want to protect the people of the communties that they live in. They want to keep people from murdering, stealing and simply breaking the law.
Without the police I could murder you and with no reprocusions. Do you see my point?
"They can go find another job that pays just as much that doesn't oppress people. "
Yet again our definitions of whatpolice do is different. So we do not even have a starting point for this discussion.
"So, FUCK THE POLICE! CLASS WAR NOW! "
What exactly is it that you propose people do?
JonUs
I propose...
by Junkyard
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2003 at 1:27 AM
What do I propose people do? What exactly are you asking? That's a very general question....
I propose that people start fighting the system, not just symptoms of the system. I propose that we do actually organizing, in addition to protests, and educate people. I propose that we get out into the community, and out of our activist ghettos, and do real work that affects people, everyday. That's just a really brief overview of what I'd like to do, and what I'd like to see "the movement" be doing. Feel free to ask more specific questions, and I'll be happy to answer them.
What would you...
by JonUs
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2003 at 9:39 AM
"I propose that we do actually organizing, in addition to protests, and educate people."
How would you educate them? What is your final goal?
JonUs
There would still be consequences
by RAGer
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2003 at 11:28 AM
you still wouldn't get away with murder even if there weren't kops around. Your community would deal with you how they see fit. I for one am Junkyard's homie so you would have to deal with folks like me and others in our collective communities. Just because there would be no kops and no written out authoritarian laws doesn't mean there would be chaos and folks running around murdering each other. We can police ourselves once folks are empowered to live their own lives in a just and peaceful way. As far as education, I think much of education is empowerment. Showing people they don't need authority and especially don't need to fear authority in their own lives. It means giving people ways to plug in to their own communities and own scenes to help improve themselves. There are many ways to do this. Kopwatch is one way, or community gardens, or Food Not Bombs, or organizing squatter movements or other beutiful orignal ways I haven't thought of.
Your not dealing with the issues.
by JonUs
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2003 at 2:05 PM
"Your community would deal with you how they see fit. I for one am Junkyard's homie so you would have to deal with folks like me and others in our collective communities."
Ok this brings up an interesting issue. Hypotheticaly I murder Junkyard. Then you "Arrest" me or do whatever you feel is worthy punishment for such a "crime". Now lets say I don't live in the same community that you live in. My community gets angry because they don't beleive that I killed Junkyard. So they demand my return. What Happens? A. Either they attack you to get my return or in Retaliation to you killing me. B. They do nothing but no longer trust you. What do you do?
Also how would commerce work? Would you recommend a barter system? How about Power? The internet?
JonUs
well..
by Evan N
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2003 at 4:58 PM
I'm not an anarchist, but i'm a socialist so i'll answer your questions according to my philosophy.
"Also how would commerce work? Would you recommend a barter system? How about Power? The internet? "
Commerce? "To each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" You do what you can to recieve what you need. its quite simple. What you put into society is what you get out of it. While a doctor might do more for society than a janitor persay, they both depend on each other. If all the doctors left, people would die, if all the janitors left, the society would be unsafe and unsanitary. Since they are interdependant, it is ludicris to reward one more than the other.
"power?" power would be spread amongst the people, and being a "council communist" as i believe that the means of production should be utilized on a local level first, direct democracy would be a whole lot easier, and referendums would deal with alot of problems that affect the people.
THe internet is fine, the spread of ideas is fine. no one here is recommending that the internet be restricted
slightly missunderstood.
by JonUs
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2003 at 6:09 PM
"Commerce? "To each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" You do what you can to recieve what you need. its quite simple. What you put into society is what you get out of it. While a doctor might do more for society than a janitor persay, they both depend on each other. If all the doctors left, people would die, if all the janitors left, the society would be unsafe and unsanitary. Since they are interdependant, it is ludicris to reward one more than the other. "
No it is infact not ludicris to reward one more than another. One does much, MUCH more stressfull work than the other. One has to Invest lots of time and effort into learning his job. While the janitors job is not that stressfull, and his job can be learned in a month or less even by the "Mentally Handicaped". The fact that you propose they be paid the same is ludicris.
"power?" power would be spread amongst the people, and being a "council communist" as i believe that the means of production should be utilized on a local level first, direct democracy would be a whole lot easier, and referendums would deal with alot of problems that affect the people. "
This question hardly applies to you since your socialist and would have a semistable government. I was talking about power as in electricity. As far as direct democracy goes I beleived strongly in it for a few years until I realized how DUMB most people are. I don't want rule of the mass'. Here is my reasoning. The mass' essentially decide what music is played on the radio, Correct? I hate most of what is on the radio. I don't trust extremly DUMB people to make decisions for me.
"THe internet is fine, the spread of ideas is fine. no one here is recommending that the internet be restricted"
Neither was I, I was pointing out that someone would have to control the central servers that the internet runs off of. And these people in an anarchist society could pretty much hold that power over the rest of society. Along with Powerplants.
JonUs
Whoa
by Basketball Fan for Peace
Thursday, Mar. 06, 2003 at 7:36 PM
I think there is certainly a place for creating utopia... interesting that it came out from a conversation about marching non-violently in protest of incredible carnage nad violence that you, Mr. Us, have never even begun to imagine outside of your Nintendo 64.
Whatever you guys come up with for uptopia, it sounds great. But lemme axe you this: as long as a bunch of non-violent marchers are threatened by baseball bats, how close are we gonna get there? Ghandi and Martin Luther King, both of whom seem unanimously revered by the readership here, were just as well-behaved as we were on March 2nd when they committed acts of civil disobedience.
Neither of them got to see utopia before they were cut down by their oppressors, but damnit, they made positive change to our society in the name of what is right... despite annoying people like Mr. Us. I'm no Martin Luther King, but thankfully, I'm completely dissimiliar to those who harrassed him as he marched.
Peace, and Go Panthers!
Yeah ....
by JonUs <---pronounced like Jonas/Jhonus Moron
Friday, Mar. 07, 2003 at 4:09 PM
"I think there is certainly a place for creating utopia... "
Then your an idiot.
"interesting that it came out from a conversation about marching non-violently in protest of incredible carnage nad violence that you, Mr. Us, have never even begun to imagine outside of your Nintendo 64. "
Yes because im 14, No i beleived in this type of crap when I was 14.
"Whatever you guys come up with for uptopia, it sounds great. "
How do you know it sounds great if they haven't come up with it yet. Maybe you should go read 1984 by Orwell, A Brave New World by Aldous Huxley, and We by Yevgeny Zamyatin. Tell me if you still beleive in a utopia after reading those. Grow up.
JonUs
oh my
by Evan N
Friday, Mar. 07, 2003 at 4:52 PM
Jonus what are you talking about
it is ludicris to treat two INTERDEPENDANT entities unequally. One cannot exist without the other ,so why should one be treated better? if they didnt want to become a doctor they wouldnt have to, they coud because something easy like a janitor, so obviously the poepl are willing to cope with the stress. And you know what? obviously people do liek whats on the radio, and if you dont liek it tough shit you dont have to listen to it. And if you dont like to live in a democracy then go to an island and start a dictatorship where you can pick the top 40 on the radio station and force people to listen to it. Sorry buddy but society shouldnt grovel at your feet any more than a janitor should grovel at a doctors feet, you are dependant on society liek the doctor is dependant on the janitor.
Mr Us needs a nap
by Panther Fan for Peace
Friday, Mar. 07, 2003 at 5:18 PM
You seem to have a great deal of anger in you Mr. Us. Maybe you can join the army and learn to focus that anger. I dont want you to rent a Ryder truck, fill it with dynomite, and blow this (in your opinion) hopeless world to smithereens. Right wingers do that shit all the time, you know!
I must warn you: if you join the army, you will probably be sent to Iraq. That country is comepletely covered in depleted uranium, which our bombs left behind 12 years ago, and you will most likely develop cancer within five years. All rest of the troops we are about to send over there will keep you company in treatment though!
Night-night, and Go Panthers!!
that might work......
by JonUs
Saturday, Mar. 08, 2003 at 2:27 PM
Evan,
You have got to be kidding. You honestly beleve that people should be paid the same no matter what job they perform? Have you ever worked before? If so what was your job? Have you ever been dramaticly better at your job than someone else is? The idea that:
"if they didnt want to become a doctor they wouldnt have to, they coud because something easy like a janitor, so obviously the poepl are willing to cope with the stress."
Ok I can see how this will work a little BUT the amount of people becoming doctors will drop wildly because a lot of people become doctors for the pay.
Panther Fan for Peace,
I am in the Air Force. I am not angry, I just dont think the people who propagandize the info on this page do not have well thought out veiws. As far as Depleted Uranium I've read plenty on it. Possibly you should read articles on Depleted uranium from a not so slanted point of view :)
"That country is comepletely covered in depleted uranium, which our bombs left behind 12 years ago, and you will most likely develop cancer within five years. "
Is this right? Then how come all of our soldeir that were over their the first time are not 7 years into cancer treatment? well let me just state that your comment doesnt make sence. I know plenty of people who were in Desert Storm and guess what? not one of them has cancer?
JonUs
Youre wrong
by Evan N
Saturday, Mar. 08, 2003 at 5:39 PM
Think of all of the people in the world that want to become doctors, but cannot due to the fact that they cannot afford medical school. Lots of people, believe it or not, like to help other people. In a socialist state, anyone could get any education they wanted, so those people who couldn't become doctors now can. Also, doctos who just do it for the money are more likely to be bad doctors as they probably do not care abotu helping people. The bad doctors will be gone, and more sincere doctors will take their place. its a win win situation
JonUs...
by Sam
Monday, Mar. 10, 2003 at 11:35 AM
I can't give you the entire argument for socialism (libertarian or otherwise) with just one post. I will, however, say this:
Read your anthropology. For over 99 percent of human existence, people lived cooperatively. There was no concept of property, let alone capitalism.
Furthermore, there are numerous historical examples of such societies working -- during the Spanish Civil War, for instance.
Rational self-interest is natural. Greed is not. Biology has shown that generally, when there is scarcity, animals compete. But when there is abundance, they share and cooperate.
Scarcity in the modern world is a myth. Food, clothing, housing, and utilities could easily be provided for everyone. These are the only inherent wants of human beings. Other "wants" -- a "nice" house, a hot car, etc. are just *manufactured desires*. In a world without advertising, no one would want them.
As far as cops go: they are human beings, yes, and to some extent, susceptible to the same emotions as anyone else. That's why practicioners of civil disobedience will often look officers in the eye and tell them that they're hurting those they're arresting.
However, police, like soldiers, are conditioned to repress their emotions to do a job. A cop in a public order situation does not react the same way that any other person would react. And the profession, by its very nature, tends to attact authoritarian types.
In fact, cops *are* soldiers. They are the frontline soldiers of the bourgeoisie. Society exists in a state of struggle, and they are on the wrong side.
spin on one side, counter-spin the other
by Basketball Fan for Peace
Monday, Mar. 10, 2003 at 1:23 PM
JonUS:
I understand your feeling that I am somehow spinning depleted uranium as a threat to US soldiers because I do not want a war. I hope anyone still reading this link understands that you, as a member of the armed forces and clearly biased as hell, are without question spinning DU as a non-threat because of your views on this war. I invite anyone who wants the FACTS to read this article and draw their own conclusions.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/MOR201A.html
I am sincerely glad your friends who fought in Iraq(not a scientific sample) don't have cancer... yet. I'm not writing to slam people in the armed forces, I understand economic conditions which force people into enlisting. I AM against them being exposed to radiation like common lab rats.
When the US tested radiation of nuclear explosions after WWII, US soldiers learned the devestating effects ten, twenty, even thirty years later. Check out http://www.radiation.org for more info on how much harm we are doing to people throughout the world (even the non-us citizens this administration will be asking you to kill), and irreparable damage to the world itself.
Go Panthers.
LIAR
by -------
Monday, Mar. 10, 2003 at 5:49 PM
You have a photo on this page titled POLICE OFFICER HITS A PROTESTER. Number one I was there, That Officer Did not hit anybody, number two if you look at the photot closely you will see that he is not hitting anybody, but is pointing his finger down the street. As I said I was there the protesters were trying to march down 5th Av against traffic, and this Officer was pointing his finger and telling them to at least go with traffic. Get your information straight. Dont make shit up.
Please read more carefully
by -
Tuesday, Mar. 11, 2003 at 12:25 AM
Um, yeah, the fact that the photo was mislabeled has been discussed above by several people, including the person who appears to be getting hit. Please read the previous commentary if you are still confused.
come together
by arlean
Tuesday, Mar. 11, 2003 at 6:36 PM
reading the posts here after time. we cannot fight each other. if we stand for peace, we must be about that i think. if we fight among ourselves, we fight and that is what we should all stand together for, to get along, to have hope.
the most beautiful photograph that ever was taken of the viet nam protest was someone putting a daisy in front of the gun of some national guard.
maybe this sunday we can bring some flowers, these gentle things that will come through this spring, and give them to the police officers, to give to each other.
political views aside for now. there will be time to argue that latter on. right now we must unite in peace and to let the entire world know that we don't all want this war here in the states. one voice, one mind.
bring flowers. flowers are hope.for the day. they might fade tomorrow, but for the day they bloom. together.
LIFE
by MY END MAY SELF
Monday, Jul. 26, 2004 at 6:51 AM
surdutudor@yahoo.com 0216484738 ramania
f.b.i. is a caver up for M.I.B.
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LIFE
by MY END MAY SELF
Monday, Jul. 26, 2004 at 6:51 AM
surdutudor@yahoo.com 0216484738 ramania
f.b.i. is a caver up for M.I.B.
-----------------------------------------------
LIFE
by MY END MAY SELF
Monday, Jul. 26, 2004 at 6:51 AM
surdutudor@yahoo.com 0216484738 ramania
f.b.i. is a caver up for M.I.B.
-----------------------------------------------
LIFE
by MY END MAY SELF
Monday, Jul. 26, 2004 at 6:51 AM
surdutudor@yahoo.com 0216484738 ramania
f.b.i. is a caver up for M.I.B.
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