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An Account of Thursday's march - and my thirty six hours in prison
by Chris Ammons Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 12:09 PM
ergon25@yahoo.com 1-412-216-0625

for Pittsburgh Indymedia My experience with Thursday's march An account of my thirty six hours in the allegheny county jail 2400 words

So I meet Ana at the University library, like we said we would. And am dashing down the stairs after her. We are very excited. Lots has happened. She has found us a ride into the city with another protester.

Finding parking is difficult in Pittsburgh. And together we scuttle around for twenty minutes trying to find a meter. And give up and go to a garage. And we are there just in time and we happily run into the lines of the march.

Its larger than we thought. Less student. More adult. More walks of life. This is very good.

The rainy-pale-cold-feeling has passed. The sun is coming out and there is good, warm, soon-to-be-night windy breeze.

“Spring has come and now god has turned against the war.”

There are balloons and noiseblasters. Lots of drummers. When a car “honks for peace” a ripple of cheers passes through the crowd.

This is the spirit of parade.

And Bush is a uniter, not a divider

“Whose streets – our streets”
“No blood for oil!”
This is what democracy looks like”
“1-2-3-4 we don’t want your racist war.”

I am becoming more vocal.

Most of the onlookers do not look very annoyed, just confused and sometimes staring in amusement. As if we where some circus troops.

Protesters are blocking a car. The driver is very angry and he tries to ram his way through. Protesters become very angry. Kicking his car and spray-painting the back windshield.

Vans and busses are blocked sometimes too. POGers finger in anarchy circles, peace circles, and heart circles, in series, on the sides of grimy PAT bus windows. Traffic is stopped.

This is the spirit of disobedience. Direct action. Civil disruption. Both spits are with most-everyone until the end. The tactics clash with each other and there is no real solution to it.

The march goes on across the bridge.

There is no traffic on it and it is taken with a feeling of grand celebration.

The police were barely present yet. But once we are out of downtown and onto East Carson street they are amassing a presence.

Demanding everyone off the side walk. Paddy-wagons and riot geared police come up. They are becoming more daring. And force us off the road onto the sidewalk.

I am in passive, nervous civil disobedience – with most everyone else. Going into the streets only in clusters. Careful not to be to far in front or behind.

I race ahead of Ana to a cluster, running around a parked car. I am slammed in the back by a policeman. He screams, with his large build and graying mustache “STAY ON THE SIDEWALK”

Its my first contact with police violence. Almost an honor. Something expected-to-happen-eventually. My back hurts. It hurts for half of an hour. It produces a rage inside to be hit like this. The type I got as a child when I felt so wronged inside that I wanted to burst out in angry tears. But these feelings are easily put aside.

And I am on the street with POGers. We are ahead and cut off from everyone else.

Their batons are out and they are shaking cans of mace.

Everyone is scared.

Someone, with great fear in his voice, starts singing the national anthem.

The march regroups on a back street. Confrontation seems imminent. This march will be different than all the ones yet.

The police have decided to use violence. They have escalated.

Eventually reassembled we are moving back across the bridge into the city. This time distinctly on the sidewalk.

Except for a lone black girl who defiantly walks on until she is rough-handed and arrested. Screaming out “PEACE!” while they cuff her.

Then a few minutes later her girlfriend comes out into the mass of the police. Her face is slammed into the pavement. She is arrested too.

And they chant:

“Shame-SHAME!”
“This is what a police state looks like.”

The police are getting very angry.

There are large scary police dogs.

The march continues on downtown. Now much smaller, more militant and youthful in character. Side walked – only the most daring clustering in onto the street.

Police cars fill the bridge behind us. There is a huge density of flashing sirens. It’s a very shocking and awing.

The police are closing in.

We cross a street and are on a sidewalk.

The writing girl is there. With a sign: “Should children be blown up?”

Police start grabbing signs from us.

They are trying to pull the ones they don’t like from the crowd.

Someone is pulled out and he is beaten on the ground with a baton.

Then they start coming into the sidewalk charging into us after what they want.

More beatings.

They wanted to use tear gas on us – I read this Saturday.

Finally they order everyone up against the wall.

I am handcuffed. I offer no resistance.

* * *

So I’m in the paddy wagon with three other guys. There is friendly conversation and speculation, and painful torn-into wrists by plastic handcuffs, suffered by everyone but me.

We are led out into the station and frisked. They take my backpack and tell me I can’t have it back until Monday.

We are celled. Twenty or thirty in a cell. There were one hundred and twenty one arrests.

A more respectable looking young democrat who knows the governor, who is bragging to us that he will be out in five minutes, is pulled out and threatened, loudly, behind a curtain.

Then the officers come in and threaten us all with a good thrashing. A very difficult night, if we weren’t well behaved.

Someone can’t help himself from giggling. He’s pulled up, slammed against the wall. “I’ll tear your fucking throat out if you mess with me, sit down and be quiet.” And no one says a word.

The only “non-protester” in our cell is a Hispanic looking kid. His face is pounding, swollen-red from a police beating.

When he rubs his eyes and gets mace back in him he begins to violently, painfully thrash around the cell. And we call the guards, but they don’t give one shit about it.

It is all a very rapid introduction to reality. Police will lie and hurt and get their way. The law is nothing because they are the law. We are animals and they can whip us if they want to.

They would hold us as long as they could if they could get away with it. This must be what fascism is. I can see what it must be like to have no rights.

Camp X-ray, the patriot act, the decay of civil liberties – they all, now, have a much more real meaning.

I will join the ACLU.

We are left alone and calmed down, and then are all talking again.

There is an older man, who was arrested with his son. He is so calm I am wondering if he is an observer. When he told an undercover agent, dressed up as one of us with a peace sign, that they were from Iran, they were taken away and arrested.

There is a bail-bond form. Everyone fills it out. I keep my pencil. I get paper from the young democrat, and start writing out the day.

I can write on toilet paper too. And there is plenty of time for me to write but I don’t. I’m soon to drained and numbed for anything creative.

We are moved, rearranged again and again, from cell to cell.

And eventually this stops for the night. I am settled down for the night with a dozen others in H17.

There is optimism on everyone. We will be out in just a few hours more.

But we aren’t getting out. It is past midnight and no one passes our cell for hours. Everything is just speculation. Soon enough it is clear that this will be at least an overnight.

The worst part about the cell is that it is all hard concrete. I get maybe an hours rest. I wake up after light dreams, with an asleep leg, sore back, and a hurting hand.

Its thirty-six hours of sleep deprivation. No one else gets any real sleep either.

And no real food. A meager ration of cornflakes and milk in the morning. Then baloney sandwiches for lunch and dinner. The sandwiches are so plastic smelling, so devoid of sufficient-taste, that I give my second one away.

Everyone is very starved. But I’m not very hungry. Or sleepy either. You don’t get sleepy when its impossible to sleep.

I am one of the quieter ones in the cell. I pace around and drink lots of water. Fragments of Bruckner and Mahler are repeating. I am thinking of Ana and hoping she will be ok – that she will bond. That her suffering will be sustainable.

Time wars down shy barriers and in time we are all talking to each other.

We are becoming friends but we all hate it here and we want to go. Much more than we want to make friends.

Most of it is about the situation. The police brutality, the shittiness of jail and a want to be out of it. The injustice of this whole thing.

The night is a radicalizing experience for him. It is for everyone there who was not already there.

Cops will never look the same.

Jail is intensively inhumane.

There is no clear end to the night since there is no real sleep. No real change.

It is one very long day.

In the morning we are shifted more. Into two different cells, then eventually back to where we were.

Sometimes prisoners will go through. A black man a cell down is screaming “Fuck Bush” for fun.

The prisoners are led out. They are in red suites. Nine are black. One is white.

We are amused and sustained by making fun of the guards. There is general Robocop – also known as twitchy, officer poopy-finger, and just a really really fat cop.

The sun is out Friday morning and we think we will all be out very soon. By mid-morning a few names have already been called. A public defender talks to us and he tells us that they are going to try to get us mass arraigned.

But it is afternoon and this clearly isn’t happening. Two or three people are called away every hour. It becomes clear that we will be here all night.

Frustration and anger come on. There is some crying. Angry fists bashed into the door. To just get one call through so so-and-so will know where I am and that I am all right.

The guards won’t tell us anything. If they respond they will lecture us and say that we shouldn’t have been on the streets. This is our punishment. This is a prison and not a playground. One of them calls us “sons of the rich.”

For three hours after dinner, no one is called away and no guard is to be seen. A blinder is set up so we can’t see down the bended hall.

I am numbed further and further as the day goes on, physically and mentally deteriorating. I am pacing about with barely a legible thought as if my IQ had dropped twenty-five points.

My face is a mess. I pick away at the yellow scabs. My infection crawls across my chin.

I am still stable through this. Keeping a long-term mind. Packing again and again around the cell. Sitting down when my feet are tired. Getting half an hour here and there of non-sleep sleep.

I am one of the most controlled ones. I am not yet stressed out.

A headache starts. A sign of minor dehydration someone says. Because I’m drinking lots of water, but pissing the rest of my body-fluids away.

The day is going further and further on and I am going further off. I will miss the symphony. How I wanted to see Brendell (And Bruckner’s 7th was playing!) And now I will most probably never see one of the greatest pianists who ever lived.

When we began there were about twenty people in our cell. And slowly there is less and less. We set up a pot. The last one in gets five dollars.

After pleading civilly with a higher officer we get more information, and a paper. They say they are trying to get us out.

We read the Post-Gazette and its depiction of the night is full of lies and half-truths. We read about anti-French venom. American war-success. An editorial that ends in “thank god for George W. Bush.”

There is an amazing boot of morale then when we learn that there have been protests outside the jail all day long. Marching around, they are chanting “let our friends go!”

Slowly we filter out and eventually I do. I am out at about eight. There are eight left thee after I am gone. And it takes five hours for them to filter in to our next cell before we can move further on our way out.

I’m finger printed. My photo is taken. By then I’m feeling barely aware. Headached away. A walking zombie.

So then we are in another holding cell, one with “real prisoners.” A self described gangster from the hill district. Mostly black but some white. DUI charges. A drunk man snores like a vacuum cleaner, somehow able to fall soundly asleep on the concrete bench.

And these are some of the hardest hours. It goes on past midnight. Past 2:00. Past 4:00. I pace around and around and just try to keep pacing. That is all. My feet hurt from all the walking.

So in the early morning they take me away again, handcuffed and footcuffed this time. There is a final holding cell and the stay here is short. We are in front of the magistrate for two minutes and he reads three of us our charges and gives us papers and that’s it. We are free.

“Our friends” are still outside. About half a dozen left. There are hugs for everyone. A cell-phone to call the parents on. A ride to home. Blankets. Brownies. Cigarettes. Such a feeling of friendship. Ana is alright. There are all cheers when the last prisoner is out (I am fifth to last.) And the sun is out and it is morning.

add your comments


bravo
by Evan N Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 2:31 PM

youre a hero dude

bravo

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you are not a hero you are an ass caught up in the rectum of a misguided protest
by jeff Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 3:49 PM

just be glad you were not in an Iraqi prison...they would have towed your car away....and then jacked you up for the dissident you only wanted to be. please...you college kids are really irritating right now..and the momentum in this very web thread...as slow as it is getting is proof positive.....it is 2003 not 1967...you will never be able to...even though the socialist dinosaurs from the Merton Center think so...to repeat the value of civil dissent that marked this country back then...now you all come across for just exactly what you are....absolutely positively nothing but subjects for the pathetic local news....news I might adivse you all...that spent mere seconds on air showing the futility of your misdemeanors....if you hate this scene so much...I say to you now...with all sincerity..go find someplace you think is better...otherwise..in a slightly more sober approach do something that matters other than the failed methods of the mid sixties.....try a little intellectual consistency.....and no those are not insecticide factories in IRAQ. Just shut up and watch. and be thankful you do not live there..because if you tried there what you just tried here last week...you would be dead.

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watch bbc or listen to NPR
by jc Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 4:08 PM

instead of CNN, you dolt.

they have been interviewing many iraqi's and the majority of them are AGAINST this war for the sake of their lives and towns not being lost. CNN shows iraqis embracing the US soldiers, which is probably the case in some situations, but not as much as they want you to believe.

i'm willing to bet that 110% of the people protesting agree that sadam hussein is an evil evil man, but so are many other dictators around the world. what's the difference?

sadam has oil.
sadam survived gulf war I.
sadam's people don't make our clothing.
sadam's land is closing point of middle east hegemony for the US.

sadam might be dead or mia right now and that's what dubya wants, but the battles are going to continue for a long time. More and more US lives are going to be lost and even more Iraqi lives including many women and children.

this is going to breed terrorism and more hatred towards the US, which will keep us living in fear.

But then again, this war is just as evil as Bill Clinton's sanctions on Iraq, but everybody was too busy worrying about him jizzing on a dress or sucking on a slimy cigar.

===

"We have heard that a half million children have died (as a result of sanctions against Iraq). I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?"Madeleine Albright: "I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it." -- A CBS Sixty Minutes interview between Leslie Stahl and U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright, on 12 May 1996

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well
by ken Monday, Mar. 24, 2003 at 6:19 PM

As long as we make our judgements based on information passed to us through a middle man, no one is to say which side is right or wrong.

No matter what, when dealing with human interpretation of a situation, it will always be biased.

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You'd like that
by Mark Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 6:05 AM

I swear, whenever somebody says that "You couldn't do this in Iraq" they are really wishing that it WAS like that here. They WANT to see protesters, freaks and weirdos locked up forever. They don't want to be burdened with guilt, restraint or ambiguity.

That's what we're fighting against. You see, some people aren't just mislead or misinformed; they are secretly wishing for a totalitarian society. Because of course, being true Americans, they have nothing to fear.

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R U serious?
by Dave Z Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 6:54 AM

"I swear, whenever somebody says that "You couldn't do this in Iraq" they are really wishing that it WAS like that here. They WANT to see protesters, freaks and weirdos locked up forever. ""

No, the point is to drive home the point that in other countries you couldnt get away with voicing an opinion that differs from the government. Dont read more into it than that.

"They don't want to be burdened with guilt, restraint or ambiguity. "

Huh?? I dont want to be burdened by ambiguity??

By the way, please note that it was not *I* who lumped "protestros freaks and weirdos" itno one group...you did.....

"That's what we're fighting against. You see, some people aren't just mislead or misinformed; they are secretly wishing for a totalitarian society. Because of course, being true Americans, they have nothing to fear."

Oh come ON!! Do you read what you type?! WHy is it that when folks try to point out how good indeed we have it, we are called totalitarian, pro-government, and accused of "falling in line"?

Is it so bad to think that its not so bad??

Geez.

DZ


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DZ, you are
by jwg Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:05 AM

Every time someone says that we are lucky to be able to speak against the government. They say it in a why that indicate that we shouldn't.

We know we're lucky to be able to protest, that's why we do it. Should we sit at home and say, "we shouldn't do anything, but at least we're able to protest" and stay in our homes.


EVERYONE KNOWS WE ARE LUCKY TO HAVE THAT RIGHT! EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

all the more reason to use it. So please, quit telling me about it. We already know.

Just because our government guarentees freedom of speech doesn't mean all speech should be supportive of the government.

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Where is everyone today?
by Dave Z Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:10 AM

Ya know, it has been a few days since the protests and one question keeps ringing over and over in my head....

If peace is such the noble cause to rally for, and if this war is such a horrendous abomination against mankind and society, and if Pittsburgh peace rallyers are so adamant about this and are so dedicated to this sentiment.....where are they??

I was just outside, at about 11:30 am. Sunny, warm day, lots of people on the street. Walked a few blocks down and back Grant, 5th avenue......

But not ONE sign or chant or quiet rally or word about the war........NOT ONE person having a quiet sit-in in support of ending the war.

Not ONE person standing in a courtyard and making the case for his thoughts on the matter.

Not ONE person handing out leaflets or offering his/her thoughts.

Just a city full of people living tehir daily lives, taking care of what is most inmportant to them.

If the "cause" you folks caused so much chaos over on Thursday is such a high prioroty, where are all of you now?? You were willing to go to jail for it last week but now that you are out, it's business as usual?? If you are truly so pissed about being arrested and you were SO wronged, why aren;t you out there on the street telling your stories TODAY??

The same thing was true yesterday.....

If "corporate greed" is the root of all evil, why are all of you either in class, at work or otherwise passing the day (watching "corporate" TV maybe??) ??

Some are here, busycalling anyone who disagrees "totalitarians" and "mindless drones".....but other than that, why is it so quiet?

If the occasional outbursts by peace rallyists and protestors garner nothing more than a passing comment by the average Pittsburgher, and ragwe when they interfere with the average pittsburgher's day-to-day life, understand that it has nothing to do with how he/she feels about the war but instead how he/she percieves the "peace movement" folks in Pittsburgh.

Where are you?? Ask yourself that question and how you can claim that this "horrible injustice" is being carried out yet you are NOT out there 24-7 lifting your voices to be heard.....

I may be "falling in line" , but at least I can say that I am practicing what I preach......I am not claiming to be ultra dedicated to a cause on one hand and rallying only when convenient on the other.

Just my thoughts.

DZ



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...
by DZ Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:26 AM

good god, you're funny

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well DZ
by Misfit Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:34 AM
ETchewy@hotmail.com

well lets see here 11:30 am on a tuesday.....um school is in session, people are at their jobs. we have lifes. we need to be educated so we become more dangerous. without a job we cannot survive. i want to be out there. i preach my word every day in school. i get my message out every way i can. its on my computer, my jacket, my phone, its in my voice, my thoughts, my words, my pen, my heart. i live it, i breath it.

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Let me break it down for the obtuse individuals in the crowd
by Mark Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 7:54 AM

Of course I read what I type, do you read what I type? Re-read some of this then... "....if you hate this scene so much...I say to you now...with all sincerity..go find someplace you think is better...otherwise..in a slightly more sober approach do something that matters other than the failed methods of the mid sixties.....try a little intellectual consistency.....and no those are not insecticide factories in IRAQ. Just shut up and watch. and be thankful you do not live there..because if you tried there what you just tried here last week...you would be dead." This is the sort of thing that I was referring to. If you hear this often enough, you get the idea where people are coming from. As has been stated, we don't need to be told that we have the right to voice our opinion, and are aware that other countries don't have that right. It seems to me that the people who need to find someplace else to live may be the ones who don't want to see dissent, because that's what we've got here-LOTS AND LOTS of dissent. And maybe the reason why we have to walk the streets is that there has been a vast deficit of critical opinion of this war in the Media. "Huh?? I dont want to be burdened by ambiguity??" Well, do you or don't you? What is your point? What I meant was that there are people here that get a rash whenever thoughts like "Are we wrong" or "How do they feel about US" or "Maybe we should proceed a little cautiously" pop into thier heads. Nobody wants to feel that way, but it's neccessary sometimes. "By the way, please note that it was not *I* who lumped 'protestros freaks and weirdos' itno one group...you did...." Wow, thanks, that one went right by me...If you were actually attempting to understand my argument instead of deconstructing it, you'd realize that I was assuming the antogonistic point of view espoused by anti-war detractors. They are the ones who call US (I was at the march) "freaks and weirdos". It's called "making a point". Interesting how you pretend not to understand that. But then again, you're into pretending, aren't you? And I'm gonna leave it up to you to figure out what I mean by that.

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Gah!
by Mark Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:01 AM

Let me try this with the appropriate tags...sorry...

Of course I read what I type, do you read what I type? Re-read some of this then...

"....if you hate this scene so much...I say to you now...with all sincerity..go find someplace you think is better...otherwise..in a slightly more sober approach do something that matters other than the failed methods of the mid sixties.....try a little intellectual consistency.....and no those are not insecticide factories in IRAQ. Just shut up and watch. and be thankful you do not live there..because if you tried there what you just tried here last week...you would be dead."

This is the sort of thing that I was referring to. If you hear this often enough, you get the idea where people are coming from.

As has been stated, we don't need to be told that we have the right to voice our opinion, and are aware that other countries don't have that right. It seems to me that the people who need to find someplace else to live may be the ones who don't want to see dissent, because that's what we've got here-LOTS AND LOTS of dissent. And maybe the reason why we have to walk the streets is that there has been a vast deficit of critical opinion of this war in the Media.

"Huh?? I dont want to be burdened by ambiguity??"

Well, do you or don't you? What is your point? What I meant was that there are people here that get a rash whenever thoughts like "Are we wrong" or "How do they feel about US" or "Maybe we should proceed a little cautiously" pop into thier heads. Nobody wants to feel that way, but it's neccessary sometimes.

"By the way, please note that it was not *I* who lumped 'protestros freaks and weirdos' itno one group...you did...."

Wow, thanks, that one went right by me...If you were actually attempting to understand my argument instead of deconstructing it, you'd realize that I was assuming the antogonistic point of view espoused by anti-war detractors. They are the ones who call US (I was at the march) "freaks and weirdos". It's called "making a point". Interesting how you pretend not to understand that. But then again, you're into pretending, aren't you? And I'm gonna leave it up to you to figure out what I mean by that.

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Mark...
by Dave Z Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:29 AM

<grin>

You obviously simply want to argue.

No thanks.

But will say this...while you are on your high horse saying that I am picking apart ("deconstructing") your argument, you COULD be out there telling your "message" to folks instead of arguing with someone whom you obviously consider to be a waste of your time....

Its ironic that you aren't. You instead sit here and perpetuate this argument.

And yet peace rallyers wonder why no one takes them seriously??
DZ

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to DZ
by emma Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:30 AM
emma@indypgh.org

Where are we now?

I'm working on an independent media project, working on graduating from college, working on spending a little time in the sunshine so I don't get sick and don't burn out. Being an activist is exhausting, particularly if you *do* make your politics entirely personal. I wouldn't say we're giving up or doing actions sporadically. But an unhealthy activist doesn't do much good, and it's as important to take care of ourselves and each other as it is to be relentless in our efforts.

solidarity,
emma

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Uh....
by Dave Z Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:40 AM

"good god, you're funny"

Witty response....I am not surprised.

...too difficult a question for you??

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Protest Bashing
by 4Love Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:41 AM

Just a quick comment to the mass of "love it or leave it" comments I've caught over the last few months...personally, I stand against this war, but that certainly does NOT mean I do not love this country. I do love this country, very much, and believe in the ideals it was founded on. These ideals are what give me the right to stand up against what I do not agree with and do my best to make the country I love an even better place, and I am always proud to do so.

So, for all those out there who continue to say "love it or leave it," let me ask you...if you love this country so much, what are you doing to help improve it? Voting is one small thing, but what else do you do? Do you go to public meetings? Attend other kinds of rallys and political events? Write to your congressmen? Volunteer in your community? Anything? It's easy to sit back and talk about how much you love this country from the comfort of your living room, but it seems very few people are willing to do much else.

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Misfit...explains a lot
by Dave Z Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:43 AM

"well lets see here 11:30 am on a tuesday.....um school is in session, people are at their jobs. we have lifes. we need to be educated so we become more dangerous. without a job we cannot survive. i want to be out there. i preach my word every day in school. i get my message out every way i can. its on my computer, my jacket, my phone, its in my voice, my thoughts, my words, my pen, my heart. i live it, i breath it."

What BS. You aren ot "living it breathing it"....

You are taking part in the SAME EXACT PROCESS as the rest of thesame society you folks are condemning......

You arent "living and breathing it" unless you are sacrificing something for it. Just becasue you have adopeted "give peace a chance" as your college-day motto DOES NOT mean you are "living and breathing" a damn thing.

Give me a break.

graduate college, live in the REAL world for 20 years supporting yourself for REALand then you have earned the priveledge to critique the society in which you have yet to truly live.

DZ

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To Emma....
by Dave Z Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 8:55 AM

"I'm working on an independent media project, working on graduating from college, working on spending a little time in the sunshine so I don't get sick and don't burn out. "

....ok...that's ONE person accounted for.

Where are the other "thousands" who agree with you all?

Puhlease.

No offense to you personally Emma.....I don't doubt your personal conviction.....in fact, I dont doubt ANYONE personal convictions here.....but Pittsburgh activists are giving the rest of the community the simple idea that these rallies are done out of convenience and boredom.

And lets face it, your goal is to sway the rest of the community right??

There is a REASON....the movement isnt dedicated enough to be a movement.

On one hand your folks slam the government and society for agreeing with it, and on the other hand you use excuses like "we have lives" and "I have school"......some dedication to a cause.

I have put more effort than THAT in petitioning to getting a stop sign put in at an intersection.
DZ

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get over it
by jwg Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 9:06 AM

People have to go about their everyday lives, it's a simple fact. Marches and such are organised to make a impact on the public.

That they happen every 2 weeks is good sign. But yes, I don't march everyday, I do have to go to work and other responsibilities. But do not doubt that any one of those 1000 marchers doesn't discuss the facts behind this coporate imperialism every day in our 'regular lives.'

The marches make an impact for masses to notice. Talking to people every day makes an impact for the individuals to notice. They are not mutually exclusive, and they are both necessary.

People's main statement about marches is that they won't get anyone on your side. This may be true, but they make people notice. Going back to 'normal' lives and talking to those around you can help tp change people's opinions.

So that is why we don't march everyday. We need that time to get thru to those who complain about / ignore the marches.

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Me? Argue?
by Mark Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 10:02 AM

"You obviously simply want to argue."

Coming from you, that's a laugh. There's a word for people who hang out on forums attempting to start arguments.

Troll.

That would be you.

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Hello everyone!
by Colin Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 10:58 AM

This is just Colin (kid with the They Might Be Giants hoodie). I just want to say I was amazed and inspired by many of the people I was held up with until 7:00 AM, being in the last group that was released. You people rock. Honestly. You're massively intelligent, progressive in your thought, brave, and overall model citizens.

Too bad we had to spend time at the mercy of white Neo-Nazi's sporting police badges, screaming racial slurs, vulgar comments, and physical violence for hours. I've been awake for three days, so I'm not too sure how many hours I was spent in there.

I wasn't part of the peace protest, and ended up joining sometime during night due to the ruckus I noticed happening down the street in an attempt of journalism. Of course I was soon subjected to police brutality, and arrested - my digital camera being taken and thrown into a bag with other people's stuff, WITHOUT A RECEIPT AN OR RECORDING.

But the hours spent in this jail really gave me an insight into the world. You peace activists are special stuff. Real citizens, and real humans - more so then the rest of that apathetic world I have to exist in day to day. It's mesmerizing.

In these days, I have learned to despise the police system. The legal system. This war and those supporting it. I have learned that my country is sick, and that they'll eat up anything. I haven't bothered to check the media but from what I've checked out on ignorant responses on Indy Media - these people will believe ANYTHING.

Regardless, drop me a line. You people are amazing. I never laughed so hard in my life, or had such intelligent discussions.

Now as for the Trolls in this discussion..

Really. He's a Troll. All Dave Z is doing is stating general rhetoric without any full logical reasoning of the situation, much less any real grasp of the world.

Dave Z will continue stating sound bites, so don't bother about writing anything to validate his Trolling. You're not going to change his mind, because he's came here to cause a stir.

If you want to respond to Dave Z, perhaps the following will be more productive.

"Dave Z, I do not respond to rhetoric."

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Thanks Colin
by Mark Tuesday, Mar. 25, 2003 at 12:29 PM

You are like a splash of baking soda infused water into a pepper-sprayed face.

:-)

"Kid in a Hoodie"? You ain't no kid. Rock on.

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advice
by Scott Saturday, Mar. 29, 2003 at 4:40 PM

don't encourage the trolls--let 'em go beat off to something else--pathetic losers that they are.

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Forgotten
by Dave Z Wednesday, Sep. 05, 2007 at 11:21 AM

I just happened back upon this site and these posts while scanning the net....I still stand by the things i said back then......

I was called a troll for stating that the protestors didn't put enough true effort into their protests...that they were protesting the very lives they were partaking in....that many of the protestors were simply protesting because they were in college and needed "something" to complain about... I was called a troll for trying to say that if you truly want to make a difference in something , it has to be at some inconvenience to you.....you cant in one breath say "I am dedicated to stopping this war!" and "....I'll get to the rally right after I finish my book report and eat dinner.".

I guess the truth hurt?

Well, its several years later... The war is still going on. Your demonstrations, ridiculing the very government that protects you, went no where.....you guys gave up...or at least seemingly did in the eyes of the average person.

I wonder if the protestors who slammed me are still out there spreading their word now that they have most assuredly graduated from school by now.....or of they have fallen into place (like the average person) and got caught up in a real job, a real life.....and now have no time to protest?

Inquiring minds wanna know..... :)

Havent seen too many demonstrations in town lately...so I guess I know the answer. LOL

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They became hipsters, like you
by Ironic, huh? Thursday, Sep. 06, 2007 at 6:16 AM

Many of them became versions of the ultra-crappy 50th anniversary hipster (yuppie who wants to be overcharged for garbage) and you of all people should realize how much time must be devoted to ironic consumption.
Those junior high, track and field shirts don't just walk out of thrift stores, and it takes time to slide into your little sister's jeans, one leg at a time. Trying to look like an extra from an obscure 80's movie takes time, but no one has to tell you that.
Fortunately, there are now many sanctuaries for the oppressed "creative class" and others who understand the pain of the freelance graphic designer, and are willing to courageously confront the big lie of the existence of gentrification.
If there was no Roboto, there would be nowhere for nazis to hang out in Wilkinsburg, no reason to hang racist fliers there and some board members would have to find a new place to sell weed, maybe at their job?
Ironic, huh?



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