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PATROIT ACT -- IMC Style : Stop IMC Censorship and Assaults on your Privacy
by Ewan Kenkesmearse Wednesday, Oct. 15, 2003 at 11:49 AM

Apparently, other IMC's have been systematically tracking user IPs and activities. In many cases this would include user ID's. No PGH IMC has been approached to participate in this IMC wide program. This is a very dangerous proposal that PGH IMC should avoid, and all IMCs should immediately reject.

PGHIMC has tried to �reassure� us all that it does not censor or track user IPs. This has been a rather important issue to many who frequent these pages. And at the risk being verbally assaulted by the IMC staff and editors and others expressing an association with IMC and its affiliated organization, those readers who have raised these concerns have, for the most part, have raised valid concerns. With respect to the issue of censorship, there appear to be several interpretations of the definition of censorship among the users of these pages. However, it is notable that even an organization such as Faux News does not treat those with opposing or challenging viewpoints with the level of "un"professionalism and discourtesy that is exhibited by the IMC organization. For example, in response to significant student protests of its morning show which was being broad cast live from the University of Pennsylvania on Friday, Faux News did not disperse the gathered protesters. Instead, Fox gave the protesters access to the same prominent space backing its morning show broadcasters and guests. Thus providing the protesters and their statements prominent and continued display throughout the 2 hour national broadcast.

Even though IMC has attempted to say that they do not track IPs or utilize any intrusive programs, this assertion is incongruous with certain actions and conduct undertaken by IMC. This past Spring, IMC took action against a group of people who were posting comments that IMC considered to be �spam� but which were little more than users engaging in the sort of discussion that is commonplace on these pages. In an effort to exclude those persons from the IMC pages the IMC editors used a form of electronic expulsion. However, the application of this was indiscriminate and excluded persons unassociated with the heckling that IMC sought to silence.

During the debate and discussion that ensued in response to this conduct, and the tireless, if not tedious, efforts of one of the affected users, IMC editors and associates actively assaulted anyone who complained of the issue. IMC worked to actively demean any opposition to its editorial practices with personal attacks and a delusional effort to rationalize the actions of IMC by asserting that all heckling, spamming, or opposition at this site is the work of a single �freeper� set upon PGH IMC by a vast right-wing cabal. Also during these discussions, IMC has said that it does not employ any electronic means to exclude users from the site, arbitrarily apply its editorial policies (not matter how flawed those polices may be, an that IMC does not track user IPs or viewing habits.

Users of these pages may be interested in knowing that many IMC�s do track user viewing information very precisely. There is even a movement afoot among all IMCs to institute a standardized user profiling and tracking practice. This system is currently in use among several IMCs and a sample of the detail of tracking can be viewed at http://tallahassee.indymedia.org/logs/Report.html PGH IMC is considering participating in this user tracking and profiling. [see correspondence at http://howard.indypgh.org/pipermail/imc-pgh-editorial/2003-October/001096.html ] The information is being gathered at this time in some effort to track usage after the Iraq war. But this information could be collected for other purposes. The system of collection, once in place, would likely not be dismantled with any ease.

It is more interesting that this information could be used in conjunction with other technology already employed by IMC (or which is apparently �under development� http://howard.indypgh.org/pipermail/imc-pgh-editorial/2003-September/001067.html ) for the purpose of identifying and excluding individuals or entire web access (in a process not unlike that previously complained of over these past few months).

This information also becomes discoverable to law enforcement and others that may seek to use the postings of individuals at these pages for even more offensive purposes. All should recall the use of postings and film clips at the PGHIMC site in the criminal prosecutions earlier this year. IMC�s unprofessional conduct in matters of free speech, equality and respect to all users threatens to slip into a very dangerous realm of irresponsibility and ignorance. IMC PGH is held out to be one of the last forums for truly free speech and news and opinion gathering. Keep it true to that mission, free from the arbitrary exercises of authority that come with the intoxicating effects of the power to shape public discourse.

The conduct under consideration by PGH IMC is not different from the government collecting information on an individuals reading habits or attempts by a corporate media conglomerate to control what information you can see and hear. Please express your concerns and urge the IMC editors not to participate in the type of data mining and user profiling that other imcs are so eager to undertake. Also urge the IMC editors to carefully execute the responsibilities of their positions and not be tempted to place value judgments on the users of this site or the views expressed.

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Response
by Quinten Wednesday, Oct. 15, 2003 at 1:11 PM

We never have and have never planned to begin logging IP addresses. Just because this person requests our help does not mean that we are going to go along with it. We have considered other ways of getting aggregate (i.e. not personally identifiable) usage information but haven't implemented anything yet.

Please keep in mind, however, that every other website that you visit probably does log your IP address. You are exaggerating the threat to privacy. If you want to remain anonymous, you should use a web proxy like [ http://anonymizer.com ].

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info and assurance re: tracking
by Mary, ed. Wednesday, Oct. 15, 2003 at 1:14 PM
Mary@indypgh.org

There are several different versions of the open-source software used for publishing by IMCs. There is information abotu the software at http://tech.indymedia.org/.

The software can be modified, but each of the IMCs is making use of some version of the software, usually with some modifications. This includes the PGH IMC.

The software comes with a number of capabilities, including IP tracking. The IP tracking module is disabled at IndyPgh, and thus no tracking is done and no log files are created. I have checked this myself.

While it would be *possible* to modify code and turn this module back on, the editorial folks share your concern that if log files existed, they could be subpoenaed. While other IMCs may be tracking IPs- I actually haven't checked- the editorial collective here is in agreement that IP addresses will not be logged. Please be assured that we are not considering changing this policy.

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same old trolls
by matt Thursday, Oct. 16, 2003 at 12:54 AM
matt@indypgh.org

http://tallahassee.indymedia.org/logs/Report.html

this site provides no personally identifiable information.

are you harassing post-gazette.com and every other internet news site about their logging practices? indymedia takes this more seriously than anyone else out there, and it is our genuine concern over this which unfortunately encourages dishonhest repetitive trolls like this one. the reptition is great for your credibility though.

if you want to read about indymedia's history of resisting government spying dating back to 2001 before the patriot act, see http://www.indymedia.org/fbi/ . we fought it then and confinute to work with the eff (http://eff.org) to fight these assults on online liberties today, whether it is the Patriot Act or the DMCA. what have the IMC newswire trolls accomplished lately?

that said i'd like to commend our friend "ewan" for posting only one copy of this misinformation instead of the dozens of fake stories and events he used to post (in order to provoke the "censorship" he now decries). still not exactly credible, but you're welcome to BS about technical subjects you do not understand all you like if you can refrain from being so disruptive.

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let's translate that into Fox-think
by * Thursday, Oct. 16, 2003 at 11:33 AM

"For example, in response to significant student protests of its morning show .../... Faux News did not disperse the gathered protesters. Instead, Fox gave the protesters access to the same prominent space backing its morning show broadcasters and guests. Thus providing the protesters and their statements prominent and continued display throughout the 2 hour national broadcast. "

yeah and I'll bet they focussed right up on those weird-looking kids in black with the piercings and stuff. Gotta keep reminding them Fox viewers that it's a scary old world out there...

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Your arrogance effects censorship
by Ewan Kenkesmearse Thursday, Oct. 16, 2003 at 12:10 PM

So why is it that if anyone here presents any issue that is at all critical of the editorial collective, the favored politics of IMC or any IMC endorsed posting, that those posters are immediately and relentlessly labeled as "trolls"? In all of my postings on this subject I have presented my concerns concisely and in a far more respectful manner than IMC has addressed me. When I was summarily excluded from the IMC pages earlier this year, IMC was quick to attribute to me any number of postings that were not my own but the work of regular hecklers.

IMC's actions at that time were prima facie censorship. I am glad that IMC ultimately reversed its very arbitrary application of some technical device that it still maintains but denies exists.

When the editors and others are so callous in their disregard for and disresect of those that present a contrary view it only shows the arrogance that permits abuses of freedom to exist here. Your approach is not only arrogant, but is immature, narrow minded, and emotionally ignorant. This is my much broader complaint with the editorial practices here.

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I'm here for you, man!!
by 2Beers Thursday, Oct. 16, 2003 at 4:03 PM

Dude, I am with you. You kick ass. These IMC'ers are out of control. Just read what they are doing in New York. You should take your plight to the W I D E R IMC network. Join up with those dudes in New York. FIght the FIght against IMC censorship or whatever. It will be the cry of freedom heard across the IMC internet. FREE EWAN KENKESMEARSE !!! FREE THE NYC IMC !!!

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Arguments for Website Moderation
by NYC Imcista Monday, Oct. 27, 2003 at 1:53 PM

What are we doing in New York? Oh yeah, making media.

I think dishonest posts like this whole thread should be moderated. Rumor-mongering and slander are really not what Indymedia is about.

Speaking for New York City, we make original media with functioning Video and Print groups � including a biweekly paper that will be posted onto the newswire in about 10 minutes. Check it out.

Free Indymedia? Indymedia is free � free news for free people.

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Moderation is Censorship. Censoship is what we need.
by Wanda Wretch Monday, Oct. 27, 2003 at 2:31 PM

CENSOR. CENSOR. oh I mean MODERATE MODERATE. Screen out all voices of opposing ideology or viewpoints. Charge a fee at the door for the IMC country club. Let the heavy handed fist of the Indy Media Leftist After School Book Club wield its gentle censoring touch. Moderate and then you publish, so now whenever IMC misses some posting that John Ashcroft finds to be contributory to a conspiracy to cause civil disobedience and mayhem he can roll right in and shut down IMC. GOOD THINKING.

I gotta tell you, you guys at the helm here at these IMC's are real media geniuses. WOO HOOO. It is worse than the High School Audio/Visual Club for Misfits Who Couldn't Play Sports.

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Wanda, Baby
by 2Beer Wednesday, Oct. 29, 2003 at 6:32 PM

I think I love you (unless you are really Ewan Kenkesmearse, in which case that is just too gay for me).

Hey, they try to censor, they try to moderate, they just plain old hate. In fact, I wrote a haiju about it:

Indymedia
<<REDACTED BY IMC>>>
Indymedia

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censorship
by required Monday, Nov. 03, 2003 at 7:24 AM

You want to see rampant censorship, look at the SF indy.

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i
by i Monday, Nov. 03, 2003 at 1:01 PM

No kidding, SF Indy will censor anyone wandering from the 'company' line. I'd say Pgh Indy and Santa Cruz Indy are the best at allowing all viewpoints.

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Of Course PGH IMC is NOW more open
by Ewan Kenkesmearse Wednesday, Nov. 05, 2003 at 4:41 AM

Thanks in no small part to the vigilance of people like me who have been posting and protesting against the kind of censorship and "editorial oversight" that is rampant at the other IMC's. Becasue we have been on this issue, PGH IMC can not just simply fall into line wiht the policies and practices of the wider IMC.

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They gave up
by IMCReader Wednesday, Nov. 05, 2003 at 7:31 AM

It would appear that the editorial collective became sick to death of being browbeaten by the freepers and trolls, and abandoned it's editorial policies.
This is why Yassar D. can cut and paste his hate-filled tripe from corporate news and hate sites such as LGF, verbatim, and claim ownership despite the obvious conflict with the editorial policies.
The trolls are also free to post their hate-filled, off-topic, knee jerk remarks as they see fit, no matter how offensive.
Ewan, I don't blame you personally, and your parodies sometimes made me smile, but the freepers and COINTELPRO types who took up your cause smeared you and lumped you in with them.
As a result Pittsburgh Indymedia is no longer a newswire, but more a yahoo style message board and bickering forum.

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sour grapes
by bedwetter detector Wednesday, Nov. 05, 2003 at 9:24 AM

Quit your whining.

The difference between this place, and the "members only" places like the Freep and the DU is that here you're directly confronted with the inanitites you spout, and you aren't protected by "moderators" who are biased.

And anyway, why doesn't the IMC take it's shingle down that says it's an "open" newswire, then?

What does "open" mean to you? Are you the typical "free speech is okay, as long as I agree with it" pinko?

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Read the damn polices
by William G. Gruff Wednesday, Nov. 05, 2003 at 1:32 PM

Read the damn police...
freeper_at_work_sm.jpglrb4lq.jpg, image/jpeg, 172x265

The above post was brought to you by chickenhawk hate groups

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irony
by me Wednesday, Nov. 05, 2003 at 4:24 PM

As a Conservative, not a limp wristed bedwetter, I'm able to dish it out and take it. Funny picture.

But it's gonna backfire. You realize you're gonna have the IMC server crash when word spreads between you liberal anal fetishists?

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My point exactly !!
by Ewan Kenkesmearse Thursday, Nov. 06, 2003 at 5:06 AM

Mr. Gruff is prime evidence of my prior assertions that IMC seeks to maintain a rather exclusive club of far left faithful. This IMC postion commands the immediate actions of labeling anyone who posts an alternative viewpoint here with the "freeper" or "troll" tag and likening them to some slovenly voyeur with an internet porn obsession. That really doesn't foster the "open" discourse which IMC allegedly wants to create. Open discourse which IMC asserts is not available elsewhere. Unfortuantley, the result of these actions is that discourse becomes more constrained than could be found elsewhere.

The Open Publishing policies state: "Open publishing means that the process of creating news is transparent to the readers. They can contribute a story and see it instantly appear in the pool of stories publicly available. Those stories are filtered as little as possible to help the readers find the stories they want. Readers can see editorial decisions being made by others. They can see how to get involved and help make editorial decisions."

The policies with respect to removal of a posting state that postings may be removed that , among other things:

"-contain information that is not true and could cause confusion about an event in the future (time/place/cancellation etc)
-have no relevance whatsoever to our area (ie., an IMC meeting in Germany).
-advocate specific criminal activity with a specific time/place/manner.
-are direct threats.
-posts that include ONLY a link or ONLY a cut and pasted story from another website.
-all comments off topic from the original story.

Please note that these criteria are "necessary but not sufficient" for hiding, and the ultimate decision to hide or display will be that of the collective as a whole. "

IMC is supposedly a place where media and news are to be disseminated to a wider audience. Including an audience which may not otherwise have exposure to the particular news item.

When posters include, or even repost news and information from other sources, and thus open that item up for comment in this forum, the purposes espoused by IMC are served. Each poster out there is not a reporter, and indeed, as independent reporters of news and fact we would all fail miserably.

When someone like Yassar D. posts information from another source, and may even include Yassar D's own editorializing, the open discourse is promoted. From my observation, Yassar D's postings, althoguh clearly of a pro Isreali bent, have been reportage of fact (which is typically well sourced). Others here are free to, and in fact do, participate in discussion with respect to the fact or news item presented. Although others here may attack those that post news items with respect to an issue that they disagree with, it is not cause to censure the original poster. Unless of course, IMC wishes to moderate the political and social positions that may be presented here.

For someone like Yassar D who has posted regularly on issues of the mid-east conflict, those postings appear to be in response to the very distinct pro-Palestinian and anti-Isreal/U.S. positions that are so pervasive at these pages. I have found those postings useful in my own understanding of the Isreal/Palestinian conflict. And as a knowlegeable adult, I do not need the IMC Editors to protect me from the sophmoric comments of 2beers and his bulldozers. (However, for the record I must say that the position that 2beers presents on the issue is no less important to the debate or worthy of consideration, no matter how uncouth his presentation.)

To characterize these legitimate and timely news postings, many of which are in response to or in furtherance of the debate at these pages, would be nothing short of censorship (or its less forthright first cousin, editorial intervention). Directing heinuos insults at a particular poster or an entire group of those judged to be of like mind, is also a form of censorship. Posting the most unattractive picture of the naked wanker at the computer is such an insult, meant to stop discussion and communicate to an entire group of posters that they are not welcome here.

There is certainly a core group of participants at these pages, which IMC should take much pride in having attracted for their individual diverse and even opposing political oreientiations. Among them I particularly note the BraveNewWOrldOrderFighter, Prodigal Yunzer, i, me, jan, Mary, *, NNFFOROS (and his/her many family members), Yassar, Yassar D., and the recently poetic (if not always annoying) 2beers. Is there an editorial policy which could be uniformily applied to the individuals without demonstrating a favoritism of the postings or presentation of any of them. And if there is, woudl it really be worth excluding any of them from these pages.

Regardless of what you may think of their positions, their news and commentary enjoys the freedom that IMC asserts that it is committed to promoting. If IMC is committed to that cause, IMC will continue along the path that it has most recently demonstrated -- allowing the discourse to grow organically, with an open flow of news and comment from many positions. We have seen postings here alleging more egregious censorship and control at other IMC's. PGH IMC has the opportunity to distinguish iteslf and stay above that fray.

Whether you believe that no plane hit the Pentagon does not matter. The repeated postings of that assertion, even when offtopic, do not constitute spam or demand censorship. Regardless of whether you think Rachel Corrie worhty of a Nobel Peace Prize, does not mean that an alternative observation of her actions is not validly presentable here. And irrespective of your personal position on the Arab/Isreali conflict, the alternative or opposing position is no less relevant here.



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You Ingrateful Lout
by 2Beers Thursday, Nov. 06, 2003 at 11:52 AM

You Ingrateful Lout...
mc_gthp.jpgshkgim.jpg, image/jpeg, 174x240

How dare you call me uncouth and annoying. Oh yeah, well you are an arrognant self-involved dilettante, and ingrateful lout, and just plain repugnant. So there. Kes Thes Mate !!

After all that I did for you. Promoting your cause. Taking up the flag when everyone else just wanted to ignore your "too proper for the likes of 2Beers" ass. Well the next time you go and piss off these liberal cretins don't come crying to me. You are on your own, pal.

I like the way you try to be insulting, yet quaintly appreciative and understanding, by trying to suggest that my comments should not be completely disregarded. Thank you for your support. I guess I know who I can count on to help me out if I am ever in the same situation you were.

What is this BS that I have "ONLY RECENTLY" been poetic. You clearly have not been paying attention to the strings. It was I, 2Beers, who started the poetry revolution at IMC. It was 2Beers who introduced the Poetry Slam Debate to these uninitiated uncouth leftists. But you would rob me of that. You bastard. I'll bet you killed Kenny, too. Well, you can forget about the autographed copy of "The 2Beers Anthology: Collected Musings From The IMC Comment Strings" that I was going to send you for Christmas. You can just pay full retail on Ebay.

LOCK UP, AND LOCK OUT, EWAN KENKESMEARSE !!!!

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Corrie bashers
by Irving Thursday, Nov. 06, 2003 at 12:20 PM

Anyone who bashes that Leftist freak is okay in my book. To call someone sophomoric is to reveal yourself as an elitist know-it-all.

Honest discourse also can include ribald humor.

Some of what you said was well put, however. But don't get the bighead. Or, like Corrie, feel "flattered"....

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Irving and friends
by disgusted about how his fellow americans act Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 1:44 AM

Taking pleasure and joking about a life that ended as tragic as Rachel Corrie's really shows what kind of low class garbage you and your unfunny friends are Irving. I don't care how you might have felt abotu what kind of person she was. Taking joy from it makes you no better than the garbage the celebrated the WTC coming down. No one deserves to be crushed by a armored bulldozer. I'd be just about as repulsed about jokes about people like yourself who were crushed. You are what's worst about this country.

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I agree,
by it's pretty sad and disgusting Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 4:48 AM

I agree,...
bulldozer3.gif17lywn.gif, image/png, 200x75

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dear disgusted
by Irving Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 8:07 AM

If ever I go to a foreign land and I'm crushed by a bulldozer while Collaborating with the Enemy, then you had goddamn well better make fun of me.

Are you some kind of idiot, or what?

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Enemy?
by US, not Israeli Citizen Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 9:05 AM

Question: Which country alone in the Middle East has nuclear weapons?
Answer: Israel.

Q: Which country in the Middle East refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections?
A: Israel.

Q: Which country in the Middle East seized the sovereign territory of other nations by military force and continues to occupy it in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
A: Israel.

Q: Which country in the Middle East routinely violates the international borders of another sovereign state with warplanes and artillery and naval gunfire?
A: Israel.

Q: What American ally in the Middle East has for years sent assassins into other countries to kill its political enemies (a practice sometimes called exporting terrorism)?
A: Israel.

Q: In which country in the Middle East have high-ranking military officers admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed?
A: Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing prisoners of war?
A: Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East created 762,000 refugees and refuses to allow them to return to their homes, farms and businesses? A: Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East refuses to pay compensation to people whose land, bank accounts and businesses it confiscated?
A: Israel.

Q: In what country in the Middle East was a high-ranking United Nations diplomat assassinated?
A: Israel.

Q: In what country in the Middle East did the man who ordered the assassination of a high-ranking U.N. diplomat become prime minister?
A: Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship in international waters, killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors?
A: Israel.

Q: What country in the Middle East employed a spy, Jonathan Pollard, to steal classified documents and then gave some of them to the Soviet Union?
A: Israel.

Q: What country at first denied any official connection to Pollard, then voted to make him a citizen and has continuously demanded that the American president grant Pollard a full pardon?
A: Israel.

Q: What country on Planet Earth has the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders?
A: Israel.

Q: Which country in the Middle East is in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council resolutions and has been protected from 29 more by U.S. vetoes?
A: Israel.

Q: What country is the United States clumisly occupying because "U.N. Security Council resolutions must be obeyed?"
A: Iraq

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question
by Irving Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 9:42 AM

Israel has nukes, yet has never used them, and they have every right to completely and utterly lay waste to the ragheaded sewage who straps bombs to children and sends them into the crowds.

Please answer why the ragheaded sewage should be allowed to live.

Adress your answers couched in the elitist lies that you Leftists are the champions of human rights and childrens rights and womyns rights, etc.

Bonus round: defend burkas.

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I KNOW IT IS A DUPLICATE POST, BUT --
by 2Beers Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 12:56 PM

I KNOW IT IS A DUPLI...
mc_harmstupid.jpgggbqkl.jpg, image/jpeg, 177x240

it needs to be said again to set teh record straight that it is 2Beers that is now back adn wasn't 2Beers yesterday as BraveNewWorldOrderFighter so callously asserts in her plea to the hallmonitors. Besides, I am hoping to stop this before things get really ugly around here.

In my return to the always entertaining IMC pages today (yesterday was a government holiday as it was Verterans Day), I fell upon the relentless rantings of "Irv" "Irving" and a cadre of posters named as Navy vessels. I was trying to figure out this whole "Little Precious" thing, which I can't really, and it is becoming rather Norman Bates-ish, but we can get to that later. So I checked into the Editorial Discussions to see what I might have missed while I was out honoring our noble veterans and hoisting a few with America's finest (trust me, that involved more than 2 beers). And there I found http://howard.indypgh.org/pipermail/imc-pgh-editorial/2003-November/001142.html in which the ubiquitous "BraveNewWorldOrderFighter" seems to accuse me of posting the numerous parodies, ramblings, and derogations of her theories.

I must say now that it is not I, 2Beers, who has posted those. That is alot of posting, that even I do not have time for. I was impressed and mildly flattered that someone used a haiku in one of those postings, but that is about it. (BTW - "Irving" your haiku needs work. "BNWOF" posted a memorable quip about haik structure in an earlier string that I recommend)

However, I think that particular "hecklage" of BNWOF's hologram theories (as bizarre as they are) has run it's course. BNWOF you are certainly a kook, but you are our kook and we respect you for that, and that is why 2Beers would be much more direct with his "hecklage". You will note that I do not have any need not to post under the identified 2Beers brandname. Although a pretender or two have attempted to post under the 2Beers name, but we seem to have gotten that straightened out.

So I hope you get that resolved, but BNWOF I already have that elitist bugtussle, Ewan Kenkesmearse, atttacking me, calling me names and otherwise trying to bash 2Beers. I don't need you piling on and causing more problems. God forbid that I may end up as an integral player in one of your conspiracy theories.

I was only away for one day, and it seems that IMC has degenerated into anarchy and chaos (which I guess is what you leftists anarchists want and I was probably standing in your way so I shouldn't be too surprised). What the hell is goign on here? Who is "Little Precious"? It sounds like a personal thing to me. What's up with all the "Irv" positngs? What the hell is this whole "USS [fillin blank]" stuff? I am afraid I may have missed far too much to be able to contribute in any meaningful way to this on going discussion. Which is unfortunate, because you all know how well I can contribute to the ongoing discussion, especially when it raises good heckling opportunity.

I am afraid that the "Irv" contingent may be approaching the "cyberslam" all wrong. You are not going to catch alot of fish if you spend too much time slapping your paddle against the water (how's that for a softball lob to all of you leftists looking for a "witty" retort). You need to sit back and wait for the hatch to go off and then start reelin' 'em in. ya see, your typical leftist pro-terrorist America-hating IMCer can not fair well in the ring of intellectual pugilism. They are far too gangly and tend to lead with their chin. They will just lay up that stuff about "no plane hit the Pentagon" "No one believed Saddam had WOMD" "The US presence in Iraq is a destabilizing force in the world, we need to get out fast (like in Somalia)" or "Arafat only wants peace." Then you can jump in there and spank them sensible with their own stupidity and hypocrisy.

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surely you jest
by Irving Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 1:06 PM

Surely you understand that "Little Precious" is aimed at those Leftist toddlers, those robotic grade school prima donnas who are elitist and sanctimonious, who think they know what's best for America while shilling for our Enemies?

Leftists are hysterical in their breastbeating, and I enjoy bringing them down a few notches. For all we know, and considering their usually non existent parents, (either physical or mentally), it's the only dose of hard reality they've ever had.

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Shirley, you jest
by 2Beers Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 1:18 PM

Shirley, you jest...
mc_welcometoourworld.jpg, image/gif, 280x330

I don;t disageree, these leftist types have generally lived some cadillac liberal existence, mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence. They are also a feeble breed who find strength in pointing to bombasitc miscreants such as "Irv" (and 2Beers) and saying "see, we are elitists becasue they are so stupid" (great piece on that theme here : http://www.msnbc.com/news/990758.asp?0dm=C16QN&cp1=1 ). Granted there is some humor in watching them huddle around chanting "I'm in a warm safe space, I am in a warm safe space, I am ..." but that does not work to liberate them of the yolk of ignorance they wear so proudly like a mantle of honor.

So you must be less like the Hun thundering the pachyderms of reality over they liberals protective intellectual Alps, and more like the herd of barn cats allowing the mouse to get comfortable in his trips to out of the hole before tossing him about like a little vermin hackysack.

Heckle on, Dude.

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styles
by Irving the miscreant Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 2:07 PM

Actually, I like the style of Patton, who terrified the Nazis simply because he had "no" particular style.

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To Irving (the miscreant)
by 2Beers Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2003 at 3:10 PM

To Irving (the miscr...
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There is an honorable and effective history of dissent here at the Pittsburgh IMC which you may want to consider in your efforts of fighting the machinery of leftist ignorance and collaboration. The PGH IMC is a shining example of the efficacy of an loose knit, but cooperative, group of right thinking libertarians and conservatives in working to liberate the leftist elitists from the dangers of the windmills in their minds. (Unfortunately, I am afraid some such as BNWOF are destine to tilt like unbalanced pinball machines at those windmills for eternity.)

The PGH IMC attracts conservative and moderates, it attracts those that dare speak against the leftist monolith of political thought, those unafraid to speak in support of Israel or to speak against an Arab culture of hate. It attracts some very thoughtful responses to the leftist ignorance and hand wringing and whining the threatens to debase American society (the same leftist idiocy that has fielded the current crop of Democratic Presidential Candidates). PGH IMC is on its way to being a haven for all political thought.

This situation has not come about without some effort and sacrifice. We have worked through the intellectual pogrom of the IMC editors, the tyranny of the IMC editorial collective, and the angry rantings and attacks of the IMC cretin underworld. I myself was even locked out by some electronic whammy that the IMC editors set upon me and others. This is the electronic exile that you may have heard that weenie Ewan Kenkesmearse crying about. But we all fought on and were able to fight for free speech (actually, I think Ewan fought for free speech, I just cleaned the cookie bin and got back in to fight another day). We have seen many great challenges which we have overcome. There was the rather amazing Rich Mackin incident. There was the big March protest which brought out much abuse and reason to be heaped upon the IMC free media despots. There was the plight of the PGH 122 who got arrested in the March protests. There were the various lesser protests that opened the lefties up for more opportunities for intellectual and moral redemption.

The point is that this is still a free thinkers, liberated work in progress. The many persons dedicated to the education of these left-leaners, notably there is the �Prodigal Yunzer� who has soldiered on in this cause for nearly a year with his/her wry wit and well researched rebuttals to the IMC party-line commentaries. There is the ethereal �N.N.F.F.O.R.O.S.� a.k.a �No name for fear of slander or reprisal� who seemed to take many forms and still appears form time to time to apply reason to the strings. There is the lost but not forgotten �S.Odamninsane� who initiated probably the most effective protest ever to come from these pages, all because the IMC editors tried to sensor him/her. And there is the annoying �Ewan� who gave the IMCers a major dose of there own BS in his rebellion against the hamfisted editorial practices of IMC. There is the delightfully named �Yassar Datsmibebe� who undertakes to regular populate the IMC pages with sensible and honest reporting of middle east events to counter the mindless pro-terrorist nonsense the is the standard here. Mr. Datsmibebe became such a target of the ire of the IMC cretin underworld that one of these social misfits even started stalking him to other websites and reposting his comments form those other sites. Pretty good work. PGH IMC is by far the most entertaining IMC out there. And it is all because of the efforts of a few committed liberators, working diligently against the collaborators.

So what I am suggesting is that the is a process to this battle. It is not about conquer, but about liberation. You are a welcome Jihadist in this effort, but you will be more effective with a plan of assault.

BTW: You need to work on the haiku.

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You Guys Are Really Starting To Piss Me Off
by 3Martinis Thursday, Nov. 13, 2003 at 12:49 PM

You Guys Are Really ...
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tactics
by Irving Thursday, Nov. 13, 2003 at 2:01 PM

Dismissing the true anal retentives, and we know they exist on both sides, I'll wager the rest are having just as much fun as I am. It's in our nature to spar.

And to 3Martinis, I swear I was once married to that girl....

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by x Thursday, Nov. 13, 2003 at 4:37 PM

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