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The Sad Decline of IndyMedia
by Chuck0 Tuesday, Dec. 02, 2003 at 8:36 PM

It was a great idea when the Independent Media Center opened up its first website for the Seattle anti-WTO protests in December 1999. The first IMC website came out of years of alternative and grassroots media activism. By a strange quirk of fate, the Seattle IMC also included something called the "open newswire," an experiment that allowed every reader to be a reporter, if they wanted to get involved in DIY, participatory media production.

It was a great idea when the Independent Media Center opened up its first website for the Seattle anti-WTO protests in December 1999. The first IMC website came out of years of alternative and grassroots media activism. By a strange quirk of fate, the Seattle IMC also included something called the "open newswire," an experiment that allowed every reader to be a reporter, if they wanted to get involved in DIY, participatory media production. The IMC network recently observed its 3rd anniversary and the 100th IMC went online, but the IMC project is facing some serious problems which, if they aren't addressed by the supporters of the IMC network, will eventually destroy the wonderful idea that is Indymedia.

There are some that would argue that the Indymedia network needs a stronger organization to address its current and persistent problems. This may be somewhat true, but those of us who have pressed for reforms find ourselves at the mercy of a network of people who are afraid to step forward and make tough decisions. It might help if there were some more organized processes, but I see the chief problem with Indymedia these days to be a political one, not an organizational or technical problem.

The IMC Network has a statement of principles and so do most local IMCs. However, the political orientation of the IMC has never been firmly established. Other IMC volunteers and myself have strongly argued for a series of regional IMC meetings and conventions to resolve these questions. The problems with the IMC's vague politics is not so much what ideology it should embrace, rather what ideologies and content the IMC Network rejects and opposes. This vagueness on politics has allowed an international network of right wingers and racists to abuse and disrupt the IMC websites, which has harmed the IMC's functionality and reputation in ways that may not be fixable without stepping on lots of toes.

If you are a regular visitor to the IMC-Global website (http://www.indymedia.org), you may have noticed some big changes earlier this year. The "open" newswire was moved off the front page for a variety of reasons. The most diplomatic reason was that many felt that the features being created by local IMCs should be featured on the Global website. This was a solid idea and should have been implemented despite the other reasons. The messier reason why the open newsire was relocated was because the IMC Global volunteers were fighting a losing campaign against right wing disruption of the website. This disruption aimed to establish "free speech" space on the Indymedia websites for right wing views and racist posts--the people doing this knew that the liberal free speech attitudes of most IMC volunteers would paralyze them from implementing consistent moderation. This right wing attack also included the posting of constant anti-semitic content, right wing op-eds and articles (carefully stripped of their source infromation), conspiracy theories, and other crap designed to ruin the reputation of the Independent Media Network.

I was part of the IMC Global Newswire collective during this period and made proposals concerning a process to deal with this problems. I also painstakenly documented the attack patterns by the right wingers and showed that certain individuals were posting similar content at the same time to various IMCs. This campaign by our enemies was successful because the IMC volunteers refused to implement aggressive moderation and otherwise dragged their feet until the changes were made earlier this year.

What did we lose when the right-wingers won? First, we lost the Indymedia network as a public space for our activists. If you remember what the IMC websites were like in the year after Seattle, you will remember them as places where activists came together to talk about issues. After the right wingers had their way for a year, you would commonly hear activists complain about Indymedia and say that they didn't bother with Indymedia anymore.

Secondly, the inability of the IMC network to take aggresive action against racist and anti-semitic posts further damaged the Indymedia's reputation with Jewish people and people of color. We understand that some pro-Israel extremists think that any criticism of Israel is anti-semitic, but the IMC network became a hotbed of just plain anti-Jewish articles, opinions, and comments. Part of the problem within the IMC network is that most activists refused to stand up to the free speech totalitarians within the network, who argued that everything posted should stay visible to the public. I've been a free speech advocate for many years and often considered myself to be a free speech zealot, but not even I would argue that our websites should provide any space for right wing and racist views. The racists have their websites--we don't need to use our limited resources to promote their hideous and offensive views.

The net result of this inaction is that racist and anti-semitic views became normalized on Indymedia websites. Sure, newswire moderators would remove the occasional racist rant or picture, but lots of stuff was left online. This normalization of racist content showed the racists and right wingers that they could have their way with Indymedia. It also alienated lots of potential Indymedia supporters. Why should a Jewish activist participate in an alternative media project that tolerates hate speech against that person?

I'm also convinced that the right wing posted lots of conspiracy content to ruin the repuation of Indymedia. I have no problem with the occasional conspiracy-type article posted to an IMC website, but I think there was good circumstantial evidence that the right wing was posted conspiracy content with the aim of damaging the reputation of Indymedia, not just in the eyes of the public, but in the eyes of the chief stakeholders: the activist community (and movements).

I still remain a big supporter of the Indymedia project. The Indymedia project has become a revolutionary force that has greatly empowered DIY journalists, rank-and-file activists, and average working people. This essay is not meant to criticize IMC volunteers, rather to call out to supporters of alternative media projects to speak up and demand that the IMC make some tough decisions to address these vexing and persistent problems. The Indymedia project has great potential. Let's not throw out the baby with bathwater in our efforts not to step on toes.

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Removing Hate and Racism IS NOT CENSORSHIP!!!!
by Jay Shaft Tuesday, Dec. 02, 2003 at 10:41 PM
freethoughtinmedia2@yahoo.com

You bring up some very difficult but clear points Chuck. It is something I will have to really think about because I am really trying to get plans together to start the Tampa Bay, FL IMC. I run a small little media group on Yahoo right now that was to be the start of the whole Tampa IMC project, but it got a bit bigger than that. I am taking the group I run now back out on the net into a real site again, while attempting to establish the Tampa IMC at the same time.

I have seen you around for years on the various IMCs and bever engaged in any discourse with you, but I wish I had now. I know of your reputation and have followed what you have done for some time now.

I started a coalition for journalists who could not get their voices printed in their own institutions back in 1996. It was formed of some old punk rockers, ARA types, and anarchists who had somehow managed to find real employment in the mainstream media.

Much to most of our expectations, it was as shitty a world as we had believed, but we all thought we could change it from the inside. Sadly we have been proven wrong on numerous occasions in our attempts to cover protests, rallies, demos and other radical activities with some form of rational perspective. Thus was the Coalition For Free Thought In Journalism born after the Terrorism Act of 96 passed into effect.

Since that time we have enlisted many journalists, writers, and editors who were fed up with being silenced or told what to write and cover. Our goal is to take back our media and truly report the news from a leftist perspective, or at least a real world view.

I have had many right wingers and hate mongers slip through the cracks and start posting hate and outright bullshit many times. My response at first was that it was a free speech issue, but thanks to an experienced editorial staff and the help of long time writers and free speech experts, I now stomp on the hate as quickly as possible. I no longer let someone hold the club of free speech over my head while spewing vitriolic hate and harmful views.

There are forums set up for the right wing and the hate groups. They do not let me post any of my views on their forums, so why should I let them post on mine. I think of my media groups as a precious and fragile child that I have nurtured for years to develop it to what it has grown into.

Just as a mother would defend her baby, so I have learned to defend what is my child and outlet for truth and freedom. I would not let a stranger harm my child with harmful words and actions, so I do not tolerate hate or damaging content to grow in my group.

I have some very experienced journalists and editors involved now, and they wil not let it happen. Often they are the first ones to slap a racist or hate monger virtually silly. I am not alone in protecting the group I have nurtured and it should be this way with the organizers of IMC.

IMC is a beautiful thing and it has helped me get my articles out to many people who would never have seen them otherwise. I am at the point now where I get published by many outlets without having to post on IMC, but I still do post there for the feeling of DIY.

I could get along without IMC but I would miss the feeling of clicking on the variuos world IMC sites and seeing my articles on the newswires. That is a joy many are unable to experience anywhere else besides IMC.

Often I see a writer on IMC and invite them to post articles at my group and then make sure the articles get on the various world media sites I have a working relationship with. I just had the pleasure of getitng one of Mark Gaffney's articles as an exclusive. I made sure it was reprinted on some very widely read sites and it was my great thrill to be able to do this for Mark.

I had quit writing for several years and it was IMC that helped me get back into a regular contributing columnist posistion for several media outlets. I am now about to go syndicated and have a job with Free Speech Radio News in the works, but I will never forget the exposure that I got from DIYing at IMC.

To wrap this long blathering up, I would not be where I am if not for the IMCs. I hope that we can all work together to correct the decline of the system we worked so hard to create and nurture. I would hate to see the IMCs fall apart, as I want to be able to help get one running in my local area.

Just think of all the self made indy journalists who would not have an outlet without the IMCs being around. Our next Chomsky could be posting his first article on IMC today. We need to reclaim our free press outlet, even if it means smashing the feet of the racists and hate mongers. Not just stepping on toes, crushing them if need be.

That is coming from a long time ARA member who is personally horrified to see all the hate going down.

By the way Chuck, e-mail me if you ever get the urge. I would like to talk if you are willing.

Peace and Freedom-- FREE THE MEDIA, BE THE MEDIA,

JAY SHAFT, EDITOR- COALITION FOR FREE THOUGHT IN MEDIA
freethoughtinmedia2@yahoo.com


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crybabies
by sam durutti Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 4:53 AM

See me. See me cry. It's always about me.

See that river of yellow at my feet. It's always someone elses fault.

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the problems with Pgh IMC
by - Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 6:51 AM

Yes, there are serious issues with IMC if you want it be useful as a progressive resource or as a tool for positive social change. If that isn't your primary consideration then I think it is working well as is.

Personally I think it's unlikely given the make up of the current IMC that policies will change enough to make it worthwhile to continue posting activist stories or comments. This downward spiral has happened with a lot of IMC's around the country who experienced concerted troll disruption. A lot of people I know are wasting inordinate amounts of time responding to garbage posts from people not interested in discussion or debate whos SOLE purpose is to disrupt any chance of IMC being a useful place for most people to post or learn.

I think the time has come to seriously consider the possability of creating a site that takes the best elements of Pgh IMC, but is more heavily moderated to take out disruptive posts. This wouldn't necessarily need to compete with Pgh IMC or try to serve the same purpose, but just be a space for progressive activists to discuss and debate. A space where tactics and issues could be discussed and actions formulated.

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sad decline
by USS Liberty Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 7:11 AM

I really hate the right wingers coming in here and cleaning house. I can't post my racist neoNazi hate screeds and images so much anymore, because I'll get called on it. The right wingers will do what the Leftists ain't got the guts to do, which is point out the "hate crime" and "racist" stuff.

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One man's disruption, ...
by Ewan Kenkesmearse Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 9:51 AM

Is another man's political statement. Or just plain his/her right to speak their mind. Why do we need protection from anyone's thoughts/expressions? And who gets to decide what is *disruptive*. Is Yassar's postings that attack anyone who is even moderately pro-Isreal *disruptive*. Are the posts of Yassar Datsmibebe *disruptive* when he is inconsiderate to the plight of the Palestinians while pointing up the hardships of the Isrealis? Is Irving *disruptive* when his statements and presentation are a quite effective presentation of his comfortable level of discourse (if not intellect)? Are the statements of BraveNew *disruptive* when everything from the Kennedy Assisination to last week's loss by the Steelers becomes a grand conspiracy of rogue holographic artists?

Who gets to decide these things? And why are they so much better at protecting you from these so-called *freepers* and *trolls* than you yourself should desire to be by applying your own critical thought and intellect? How long will it be before ANY posting that is supportive of George Bush, states an argument against gay marriage, attacks any of the sacred cows of the left, or is critical of IMC is determined *disruptive* and removed safely from site? Is that what we real believe we need in the Agora of Indymedia?

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...
by ... Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 9:54 AM

Just a question,
Do you spend any fraction of the time you spend disrupting IMC harassing the Free Republic site which has some of the strictist censorship of any site I've seen.

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a pro and a con
by Irving Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 10:56 AM

I have personally stated that I don't like how the Freep cans trolls. It's okay in my book to have at them, just as I expect someone to go after me here. I'm big enough to take it, or I wouldn't have come in here.

And to Ewan, are you saying that I'm effective, but not very "intellectual"? I'm not sure how to take that. You might not like my style, but I'm far from uneducated.

Besides, intellectuals don't exist.

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not answering my question.
by . Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 11:11 AM

You didn't answer my question. I didn't ask if you agreed or disagged with the FR policy.

Let me repeat? Do you spend any fraction of the time you spend disrupting IMC harassing the Free Republic site which has some of the strictist censorship of any site I've seen. If you don't spend very much time, why is that?

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incredible stupidity
by the Sam smasher Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 1:01 PM

What's your point, Sam? Projecting again? You're the asshole who bashed the IMC. It makes no sense that you question my bashing in the Freep, and I'm no fool and see your utterly transparent attempt at trying to get me to admit whether I'm a Freeper or not to begin with.

Let's turn your question around, little backstabber who runs to the DU - how often do you bash the DU, which you're a member of? How long would you last there?

The fact remains that we're here, in the IMC. So far it's neutral, which you absolutely can't stand, because here, without the "protectors" of either the Freep or DU, I soundly and effortlessly whip your ass.

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...
by ... Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 2:40 PM

No Irving, you aren't winning any arguments here. I'm not Sam, and I'm not you - just an observer of the events. Sam tends to respond to posts in an educated fashion, without throwing about childish insults in nearly every sentence. While he may make a snide remark or two, he actually argues his point, in depth sometimes, logically. Whether or not I agree with him or you politically is inconsequential, but you are doing no great service to your side with your supposed arguments. Your posts, unlike Sam's, evade questions rather than answer them and are usually filled with unsupported namecalling and insults. I know, Sam may call you a Freeper or other similar names, but Irving, you know as well as I do that doesn't compare to the remarks you make. Bathing habits, lice factories, rich parents, hippies - you tend to put that all out there for no apparent reason than to incite an argument and evade whatever question may have been posed to you.

Sam's point with the last question was not to figure out whether or not you are a "Freeper." Since you make attacks on Indymedia of censorship rather frequently, and continually talk about your free speech on this site, he was merely asking if you had any concern over the alleged deep censorship over at the Free Republic? This question is not without basis, as one of your main motivations of being on the Indymedia site is to protect your right of free speech for everyone here and be able to have a two sided argument. It seems like if that is such a crucuial factor in your life, it may be prudent to attack the policies of another politically biased website, the Free Republic, since they allegedly do not allow opposing viewpoints.

Irving, you have yet to win any arguments around here. Before blowing your victory horn, you may want to actually respond to items without name calling. Even though I may be politically on your wavelength, your tactics of evasion and name calling isn't furthering our viewpoint.

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wrong
by amused Wednesday, Dec. 03, 2003 at 2:52 PM

"Since you make attacks on Indymedia of censorship rather frequently, and continually talk about your free speech on this site, he was merely asking if you had any concern over the alleged deep censorship over at the Free Republic?"

-----------------------

A bald faced lie. I have in fact spoken in favor of this particular IMC.
------------------------

"Even though I may be politically on your wavelength, your tactics of evasion and name calling isn't furthering our viewpoint."

I sense you are Ewan. More than once I've sensed jealousy of me and my tactics. I don't give a rat's DU what you or anyone else thinks of me. I'm not craving being a member of a collective of any kind. And yeah, I'm winning, hence all the cries for censorship around here.

One more thing - "Sam" wastes time with the same old boring stuff. The moron got caught dead in a lie and it wrote a rambling piece of nonsense instead of just admitting it was caught dead in a lie. It has no credibility.

If you want a dialog with Collaborators who champion Hussein, go right ahead. I'll not call for censoring you. But don't expect me to give you an ounce of respect either. This is an arena, not a massage parlor.

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bring out the junk cars and the spiky suits!
by DF Thursday, Dec. 04, 2003 at 3:34 AM

- This is an arena, not a massage parlor. -

A very revealing comment. I wouldn't like to live in your head Irving although your imaginative powers are awesome if scary. An arena, where do you think you are - Mad Max Online ?

Yeah this should be a forum for different ideas on the other hand but the word forum implies some kind of exchange and where's the exchange with you guys ? Ever seen little kids argue ? They yell as loud as they can and stick their fingers in their ears so they can't hear what the other kids saying. That's what much of the so-called dialogue's like here. Arena - give me a break.

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I am a home skooler
by Irving Thursday, Dec. 04, 2003 at 3:46 AM

That's why I have so much trolling time.

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We are not FR
by Ewan Kenkesmearse Thursday, Dec. 04, 2003 at 10:10 AM

This is IMC, not FR. Why does it matter if Irving or anyone else "trolls" FR, DU, or Amazon.com. The issue at hand is censorship at PGH IMC. No one has been more vocal about maintaining the last outpost of IMC free speech here at PGH IMC than me. Irving is free to freep all he wants. Let him. You may even learn something from his freeping. If we close out the opposition the way FR has then we will be doomed to live in a closed society of thought. Besides, its a webpage, not a real arena where Irving reach out and slap someone. Although we may all like to neither can we reach out and give him the cooties. So this freedom to be a bombastic asshole is exactly what we need more of.

Admit it, there are a fair number of assholes on the left also. Irving is just a reflection of some of the worst of the left. How about Ms. Vandenheuvel who was on O'Reilly the other nite and someone posted the transacript here. Sort of like hte left's versino of Irving, except she got on prime time TV. Irving is kind of like that classs bully, who although sometimes entertaining, you know is always going to be nothing more than that. If anything, treat Irving with the respect that he deserves as a less fortunate in our society. Let him act out and rant. I can tell he is hitting the wall here. It seems like has also lost the invovlement of his cheering section of 2beers and the others. With out is support network and facilitators he will soon fade into the woodwork. So my observtion is that it is the IMC loyalist who have been and will be successful here. Not Irving. Although I suppport and will fight for his right to remain part of this community. For his benefit and ours.

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where's all the "intellectuals"?
by Irving Friday, Dec. 05, 2003 at 6:06 AM

This place is loaded with the uneducated. Amazing how the concept of an "arena" flies right over their heads. They're such children, taking things literal instead of figurative. I suppose they need everything spelled out for them yet again.

Allow me to repeat, DF and Ewan and whoever else - it's an "arena of ideas" ! I think I'd said it on the thread Sam the DU crybaby started, where I'd also same as championed this particular IMC for their tolerating me and other things. But hey, your kind won't give a "Freeper" credit for THAT, will you?

An arena of ideas is where we all sit here, firing away with our keyboards. Would you prefer actually being in the streets? Real guns? Real bullets? I'm not the only one who feels civil war is coming. Never thought I'd see it in my lifetime, but it feels like the '30's again, and right here in this IMC you have Jew hating neoNazis, Brown Shirts such as "USS Liberty" who wasted the IMC bandwidth posting that same image (several posts above this) several times. Who called that Brown Shirt for what it was until I came along? How come you schmucks don't keep your own house clean?

No, what you bedwetters want is a massage parlor, where everyone strokes each other and chants Chomsky's name in Borgian unison, instead of facing opposite ideas. You think I'm something? I'm nothing compared to the raghead scum who wants to murder you. If you can't handle the thoughts of little old Irving, then what about when the real bullets fly? No wonder you're Appeasers now�.

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indymedia in decline
by baker Friday, Dec. 12, 2003 at 3:27 PM

http://thunderbay.indymedia.org/news/2003/12/10669_comment.php#10678

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