PGHIMC - Pittsburgh Independent Media Center

Protest Locations for the future
by Ken Monday, Mar. 06, 2006 at 2:26 AM

i wish we could hold a large scale protest in a less friendly area to bring our message to an area that won't basically be all people who agree with us already.

i applaud all the efforts and work of the anti-war committee, POG, etc especially since i have been out of the loop for some time for numerous reasons and have not helped. However, i wish we could hold a large scale protest in a less friendly area to bring our message to an area that won't basically be all people who agree with us already. East Lib and Squirrel Hill are clearly with us on this issue. Southside on the other hand is gettin more and more yuppie and wealthy, meaning the demographic is shifting in a bad way and I as someone who grew up in Arlington, which is close to Southside, cannot stand to see what is happening down there. I think a large scale demo on the southside or some action down there would be ideal in light of these facts and the enormous amount of public traffic of all types that comes thru the area. This side of the city has seen little to no action in the political aspect of life and its due time we bring some of this over here! Any thoughts on this would be welcome. (Keep in mind how people were attacked on East Carson when the war began....clearly they don't want us there, which is all the more reason to move on down and take action!)

Nice Try
by Ecommunist Monday, Mar. 06, 2006 at 10:30 PM

I suggested something like this about a year ago when I lived in Mt. Lebanon, protesting at South Hills Village and taking the fight to the capitalists but all of the pseudorevolutionaries that visited this site and commented worried about obtaining permits and trespassing on private property. I'm with you though, let me know when and where and I'll proudly stand with you.

thanks alot
by ken Tuesday, Mar. 07, 2006 at 2:39 AM

hey thanks bud i appreciate the solidarity. and since when do permits and petty trespassing mean shit? unpermitted marches were like a weekly ritual before the war. i'd hope such stuff doesn't keep people from attending such events or this movement is nowhere serious enough about whats going on.

i
by i Tuesday, Mar. 07, 2006 at 11:30 AM

"...as someone who grew up in Arlington, which is close to Southside, cannot stand to see what is happening down there."

What a minute. You grew up in Arlington but are more bothered by what's happening on the Southside than in Arlington itself?!!! My parents had to move out of Arlington because their car got stolen 3-4 times in 2 years and their house was broken into several times too.

arlington
by Ken Tuesday, Mar. 07, 2006 at 6:33 PM

i lived here in arlington all my life and i know theft has always been a huge problem here. But where in this city isn't theft occurring? With the type of money coming into Southside they have burglaries and theft all the time. Besides, this neighborhood isn't nearly as bad as alot of other places, even those bordering Arlington such as Knoxville, Beltzhoover, and St Clair Village. These areas have far worse problems with crime and social decay. Sorry your parents had it rough here (my dad had a pontiac years ago that was stolen 3 times over the time he had it and my house had been broken into once) but overall i don't think arlington is a bad place to live. I'll take it over the yuppie/frat boy loser barlife that is southside now. Anyways my point was protest locations not to debate the quality of where i live and grew up. Southside and this side of the city has been neglected for too long. Lets spread our message to every area of the city!

i
by i Tuesday, Mar. 07, 2006 at 9:44 PM

"Anyways my point was protest locations not to debate the quality of where i live and grew up."

Fair enough.

Get off you hands and organize
by Eastender Wednesday, Mar. 08, 2006 at 2:48 PM

Did it ever occur to you that you could organize in your own community, rather than wait for other people to bring the fight to you?
I don't live in or go near the South Side for the reasons you mention. Neither do most of the folks putting on other events. As a lifelong resident of that area, you should be able to get a few people together and organize something.
Personally though, if all of your new neighbors were magically transported to Iraq, I'd be thrilled.

Same goes for the 'mall-protest' person, I don't care about South Hills Village, I wouldn't know how to get there if I did.

what an idiot
by ken Wednesday, Mar. 08, 2006 at 10:35 PM

i live in arlington not southside u moron so they aren't my "neighbors" and second i wasn't demanding anyone do it all for me, i was just suggesting an idea for people to consider. (by the way dumbass i have done a shitload of organizing in my time both here in Pgh and in college). I complimented all those who have been doing alot of organizing as well so obviously i wasn't trying to be down on those doin what they do now. It kills me how the know-it-all stuck up elitist types get sooo pissed when someone has the nerve to just suggest a little variety or new ideas in what is happening as if anything democratic such as input by all in the anti-war movement is a terrible thing. Typical though. And congrats you can't find south hills village good to know you can't find your way around a city you live in. Hopefully your not leading the march or we might all get lost and go the wrong way. Then again with people like you alienating those on your side let alone others u might wanna convince, i doubt we have any chance of success regardless.

Reply to eastender
by South Hills progressive Sunday, Mar. 12, 2006 at 12:36 AM

To Eastender who wrote:

Did it ever occur to you that you could organize in your own community, rather than wait for other people to bring the fight to you?
I don't live in or go near the South Side for the reasons you mention. Neither do most of the folks putting on other events. As a lifelong resident of that area, you should be able to get a few people together and organize something.
Personally though, if all of your new neighbors were magically transported to Iraq, I'd be thrilled.

Same goes for the 'mall-protest' person, I don't care about South Hills Village, I wouldn't know how to get there if I did.
*****
To Eastender:

FYI -- some of the most progressive people I know live in the southern part of the city & Allegheny Co. It is very "progressive" of you to dismiss the residents of areas that you so proudly proclaim never to step foot in. It is hard to see how open-minded you could be about people in other countries if you are so bigoted & closed-minded about those in your own community. Just like the ditzy woman who sat next to me at the last Thomas Merton Center dinner who was so elated that they finally moved the dinner to the east end; before they actually had the gall to expect her to cross a bridge! (Hint to other east enders afraid of bridges--you might want to try moving to another city without so many of them!!)

I used to be much more active politically until working two jobs to keep my head above water made that impossible. And FYI--the last organization I was involved was almost entirely made up of people living & working in the South Hills (Dormont, Castle Shannon, Mt. Washington, etc.) Other organizations I had been involved with eventually turned me off because of their east end bias. Eventually I got tired of a bunch of snot-asses turning their nose up when they heard where I lived; or worse, just assuming that everyone at the meeting lived somewhere in the east because, of couse, if you live in the Pgh area & have a progressive bone in your body, you MUST live in the east end!

Well, back to my humble, worthless existence in Dormont--oh, by the way, also home to Molly Rush. You might have heard of her--co-founder of the TMC, member of Plowshares Eight, etc. I assume she qualifies as a bonified progressive activist? Or maybe not, since they apparently only live in the east end in Pgh. (FYI Eastender--if you're not able to locate Dormont on a map, you might want to look somewhere between the South Side, whose residents you would happily relocate to Iraq & South Hills Village, of whose location you proudly proclaim ignorance.)

P.S. I participated in most of the big antiwar events in the past, including the South Side, Oakland, & Squirrel Hill. If my memory serves me correctly, there were just as many frat boys in Oakland as on the South Side. Actually on the South Side, the section I was in encountered much more positive reaction than negative; maybe we just see what we want to see. If you're focused on hating a certain area maybe its easier to focus only on the couple of drunk frat boys outside a bar than the waitress holding up a supportive sign in front of Tom's Diner or the many other passers by giving the thumbs up.

yep
by Ken Sunday, Mar. 12, 2006 at 1:00 AM

thanks south hills for gettin me on that. i don't wanna start a damn city sections war here either cuz alot of open-minded good people that do great political work live on the east end. plenty of POG people are cool and i took some long trips with these people to fight for the same causes (FTAA in Miami). but to clear it up lastly, i don't want to demand anything here its just a suggestion thats all. East Lib is cool but i hate marching around in circles preaching to the choir sometimes. To win this fight, we can't be afraid of those who oppose us. i spent years in republican central in college doin progressive organizing. so if i can do this, i KNOW POG can certainly do it times 10. I'd be happy to take initiative on organizing a demo in southside or something but it would help alot to have the backing of TMC, POG, etc. Saying "hey yea go ahead do something in southside but we will have nothin to do with it or help at all" is dumb to me as far as those who have basically spit this nonsense in the past. Judging from the FBI surveillance etc we all got bigger things to deal with.

ditto
by South Hills progressive Sunday, Mar. 12, 2006 at 3:49 PM

My thoughts exactly. I've dealt with a lot of great people from the east side of town, and I generally have no problem going there; it just would be nice to get the same respect back from the pouty minority of east enders who refuse to leave their cocoon. I feel that all of the neighorhoods have their pluses & minuses. Sure there is beginning to be a lot of ugly commercialism on the South Side, but there are still a few local, independent businesses there too. And if east enders want to critique commercialism, all they need to look to are certain sections of Squirrel Hill & Shadyside. That doesn't mean that is all the east end has to offer either.

1111
by 1111 Monday, Mar. 13, 2006 at 1:38 AM

this is ridiculous and divisive. i certainly understand you're irritated by the lack of events in your immidiate vicinity but come on...

The group organizing the March 18th event is democratic. Where this event would take place was discussed at three seperate meetings. If people had suggested the Southside it's possible it could be taking place there or wherever.

Furthermore the rally location is in East Liberty- a nice break from the usual and indicative of the support organizers wish to extend to Black Voices for Peace who have been holding events regularly. And only one previous anti-war march has gone through Shadyside as far as I'm aware.

excuses
by ken Monday, Mar. 13, 2006 at 2:27 PM

simply throwing out an idea for various locations for protests is not "divisive" i just suggested an idea. the ass that decided to insult anyone who dares throw other ideas out is the divisive one. i have said in every damn post the organizers are good people and are generally open-minded etc. do u people read posts before replying? i swear you don't and just see what u wanna see. so suggesting that others opinions aren't democratic and "serve to divide" is really something taken right out of a Bush/republican speech these days. so congrats for quoting that idiot.

34534
by 3545 Monday, Mar. 13, 2006 at 2:46 PM

the original post was not divisive and I have no opposition to the idea. later comments however were. who are these pouty east enders who refuse to leave the cocoon? this kind of blanket generalization of people makes no sense and is divisive.

There is no "we" who are opposed to taking protests elsewhere. You're attempt to create different boxes into which people are supposed to fall makes no sense in the context of this movement.

Virtual activsm at its finest
by yinsurrection, baby Monday, Mar. 13, 2006 at 5:11 PM

This was definitely one of the funniest exchanges ever.
Elitism, rumors of elitism, personality worship, seeking validation based on past activities, and more, yet nobody wants to admit that we march for ourselves, since the gubmint doesn't seem to be too impressed with these glorified parades.

What is its name?
by C. Monday, Mar. 13, 2006 at 6:45 PM

What's the name of that damn mythological snake that eats its own tail?

That's what's going on here.

yep
by Ken Monday, Mar. 13, 2006 at 9:53 PM

i agree the marches don't do shit. this administration is violent and extreme and anything peaceful means nothing to them. I realize i am a part of that problem b/c i am not taking more direct action to try forcing real change and for that i can only blame myself. I do give credit though to the peaceful organizers because they are doing something, even if i don't think it has a prayer of succeding. Until more people are ready to look ahead and progress in our actions to confront this administration like protestors in the 60s did, then we are doomed. Anti-globalization marches are "plagued by riots" as the news says. I say its because of those riots and fighting that we have had success in that movement as opposed to the anti-war movement. People simply need to get more pissed off and aggressive for any real change to come about

.
by . Tuesday, Mar. 14, 2006 at 12:18 PM

Never would have thought that AR of POG fame would go about calling people divisive to the movement for questioning POG in any way. Same old shit he's been spewing for years now.

Don't worry, they only want people who fit in their anarcho-box to express ideas at the meetings anyway. Let them get arrested acting like children again, rather than thinking through tactical decisions like adults.

88
by 88 Tuesday, Mar. 14, 2006 at 3:01 PM

why does everyone insist on making everything about pog? this thread was about the choice of locations for this weekends events. organized by the tmc.

LOL
by PW Wednesday, Mar. 15, 2006 at 9:47 AM

LOL! TONIGHT LIVE ON INDYMEDIA STUPID HIPPIES DEVOUR THEMSELVES
HOPE THE POLICE HAVE ENOUGH TAZERS THIS WEEKEND FOR ALL YOUR FIGHTS
29.99 PAY PER VIEW WITH COMMUNIST TIM WHINING VS. POG BABIES VS. ANTI SANITY COMMITTEE VS. KEN

ROTFL
by Protest Worrier Wednesday, Mar. 15, 2006 at 10:27 AM

Live on freak republic, the pill popping, morbidly obese Limbaugh babies at the mostly defunct protest warrior learn how to turn off the 'caps lock'.

right wing
by Ken Wednesday, Mar. 15, 2006 at 6:35 PM

the right-wing types must be terrified of all of us these days i mean all i did was suggest a location and we debated it some. yet somehow this is all of us turning on each other and its all crashing down!! ha u wish moron. unlike the intolerant right, we are able to debate and discuss things rationally because we have something most neo-cons and their allies lack, which is intelligence. Other than a few idiots, those on our side have generally always managed to deal with things in a normal manner.

conquer and divide
by burghdude Friday, Mar. 17, 2006 at 6:23 PM

there was a protest on carson st years ago when the war first started. it may have been before then, even.

who gives a shit about yuppies...most of the lefties I've met come from yuppie upbringings, but try to deny it and eat stale bagels from dumpsters because it makes their conscience feel better.

if you want to end the war, you can't alienate people. i said that when i was a dirty anarchist many many years ago. nobody listened, so now i'm fed up with the leftist movement, voting Democrat, drinking starbucks and enjoying upward mobility.

the far right loves that there is no unity amongst people who are left of center.

greensburg
by brian Saturday, Mar. 18, 2006 at 10:46 PM

the original topic of this thread was about alternate locations for protest...i just wanted to take a minute to applaud the efforts of those folks from murrysville and greensburg who rallied today in greensburg (definitely not the usual spot for an anti-war rally)...keep up the good work brothers and sisters in westmoreland county!